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About This Page: This is a discussion on Other Sports within the LetsGoKings.com forums, at Los Angeles Kings Hockey Fan Forum. Hello MMA fans.
I'm a huge boxing fan, and I decided to give MMA a look the past two events. Am I missing something? Can someone please explain what the
I'm a huge boxing fan, and I decided to give MMA a look the past two events. Am I missing something? Can someone please explain what the exitement is all about with MMA?
Maybe I just got unlucky and watched a two boring events, but I just don't understand attraction of watching men hugging and laying on each other 90% of the time. There was a reason why the fans in London were booing the main event, it was boring!!!
Don't get me wrong, these guys seem to be decent athletes, and I have respect for anyone who fights, whether it's a boxer or a MMA fighter. But, I wanted to fast forward every time the fighters went to the ground.
I think the best thing about MMA, and boxing should try and do the same thing, is that the events seem to feature 4-5 'main events' where each fight features two guys are are evenly matched. A boxing PPV will normally have 1-2 decent fights, if that.
The production of an MMA event, broadcasters included, is a little WWE esque IMO.
I'm sure there are plenty of 'hardcore' UFC fans on this site, so i'm sorry if I pissed anyone off.
I'm a huge boxing fan, and I decided to give MMA a look the past two events. Am I missing something? Can someone please explain what the exitement is all about with MMA?
Maybe I just got unlucky and watched a two boring events, but I just don't understand attraction of watching men hugging and laying on each other 90% of the time. There was a reason why the fans in London were booing the main event, it was boring!!!
Well, it's also possible that MMA just isn't your thing. Those of us that are really into it appreciate all the different dynamics that can come into play. The wrestling, the muay thai, the judo, the boxing, all of it. With boxing, while I really enjoy it, you have different styles, but not different "weapons" per se. In MMA, a solid boxer is vulnerable to so many things, that each fight is a potential "upset". I feel that there is a reason you see several boxers with 22-0 or 25-2 records. If you're quicker and more powerful than most, you're going to do well. In MMA, that's not always the case. Look back in early MMA matches with Royce Gracie. The guy was always smaller and less powerful than his opponent. Do you think De La Hoya would have a chance in the ring with a guy like Lennox Lewis? In MMA, he does.
As far as the last two PPV's go, you didn't like the previous one? There were some REAL good fights. The Couture and Gonzaga fight was pretty solid with both guys striking well. GSP looked really good in the fight he has as well. Maybe it's a "learning curve" to get used to the details and strategy of MMA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup B4 I Die
Don't get me wrong, these guys seem to be decent athletes, and I have respect for anyone who fights, whether it's a boxer or a MMA fighter. But, I wanted to fast forward every time the fighters went to the ground.
Again, it's a personal preference. I don't think there is a single fan of MMA who likes the "lay and pray" style, but when guys are transitioning all around and trying to submit each other. . .or gain position for striking, it's exciting to me and others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup B4 I Die
I think the best thing about MMA, and boxing should try and do the same thing, is that the events seem to feature 4-5 'main events' where each fight features two guys are are evenly matched. A boxing PPV will normally have 1-2 decent fights, if that.
I don't think anyone would disagree with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup B4 I Die
The production of an MMA event, broadcasters included, is a little WWE esque IMO.
I hear this a lot, but I'm not sure why people say this. I really don't know. How is boxing any different? Roy Jones Jr. coming out from a box seat in Radio City with Method Man rapping while he's walking out? That's WAY more than any MMA guy has done. If you're talking about the excitement level of Joe Rogan, well. . .Jim Lampley can be just as bad. Maybe he doesn't say "crazy" and "sick" as much, but he's just as excitable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup B4 I Die
I'm sure there are plenty of 'hardcore' UFC fans on this site, so i'm sorry if I pissed anyone off.
No harm, no foul. All opinions are welcome. It's only annoying when people start banging on MMA by calling it a bunch of gay guys rolling around and they should get some oil in there. Coming in here with an opinion and reasons why you struggle to get it is no problem.
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Just for Hatter
Last edited by SmytheKing; September 9th, 2007 at 03:55 PM.
I agree about the Hamil fight, he should've won, but I guess being in London played a significant role for who won because it's Bisping's hometown. I guess Bisping had to get knocked out or submissioned for him to lose.
I may be wrong, but when Bruce Buffer announced the names of the judges, they all seemed familiar. I believe they were from the US, in which case the hometown thing should have no bearing. I agree though, I have no idea how Bisping got that decision.
I may be wrong, but when Bruce Buffer announced the names of the judges, they all seemed familiar. I believe they were from the US, in which case the hometown thing should have no bearing. I agree though, I have no idea how Bisping got that decision.
Correct, all the judges have officiated over her before as well(including blind Cecil Peoples, a notoriously awful judge). What shocked me was that I saw no way Bisping won rounds 1 or 2. I'm willing to say round 3 was close and can see Bisping taking that round.
Adding to the CroCop issue, I was actually screaming at the screen I was so angry at him. He comes out aggressively in the 1st without taking much damage and inflicting a little but still won the round. He comes out for round 2 and suddenly won't engage at all. Unbelievable, I used to love this guy but at this point he's serving no purpose. Should just put him and Arlovski in together and hold an underachievers match with each fighter backing into their respective corner without throwing a single punch.
__________________ "So I was sitting in my cubicle today, and I realized, ever since I started working, every single day of my life has been worse than the day before it. So that means that every single day that you see me, that's on the worst day of my life." - Peter Gibbons(Office Space)
Well, it's also possible that MMA just isn't your thing. Those of us that are really into it appreciate all the different dynamics that can come into play. The wrestling, the muay thai, the judo, the boxing, all of it. With boxing, while I really enjoy it, you have different styles, but not different "weapons" per se. In MMA, a solid boxer is vulnerable to so many things, that each fight is a potential "upset". I feel that there is a reason you see several boxers with 22-0 or 25-2 records. If you're quicker and more powerful than most, you're going to do well. In MMA, that's not always the case. Look back in early MMA matches with Royce Gracie. The guy was always smaller and less powerful than his opponent. Do you think De La Hoya would have a chance in the ring with a guy like Lennox Lewis? In MMA, he does.
As far as the last two PPV's go, you didn't like the previous one? There were some REAL good fights. The Couture and Gonzaga fight was pretty solid with both guys striking well. GSP looked really good in the fight he has as well. Maybe it's a "learning curve" to get used to the details and strategy of MMA.
Again, it's a personal preference. I don't think there is a single fan of MMA who likes the "lay and pray" style, but when guys are transitioning all around and trying to submit each other. . .or gain position for striking, it's exciting to me and others.
I don't think anyone would disagree with that.
I hear this a lot, but I'm not sure why people say this. I really don't know. How is boxing any different? Roy Jones Jr. coming out from a box seat in Radio City with Method Man rapping while he's walking out? That's WAY more than any MMA guy has done. If you're talking about the excitement level of Joe Rogan, well. . .Jim Lampley can be just as bad. Maybe he doesn't say "crazy" and "sick" as much, but he's just as excitable.
No harm, no foul. All opinions are welcome. It's only annoying when people start banging on MMA by calling it a bunch of gay guys rolling around and they should get some oil in there. Coming in here with an opinion and reasons why you struggle to get it is no problem.
Thanks for the response. Yah, I was talking with my brother, who loves MMA, and i've decided to give it some time to grow on me. He thinks i'll enjoy it more once I become familiar with each fighter and their personalities.
The WWE esque part to me is how the announcers tend to talk over each other throughout the fight. The difference between Lampley and the MMA guys is that Lampley yells and gets excited when the fight gets exciting. The MMA guys are excited and yelling no matter what's going on. Always attempting to pump up the viewing audience. Rogan tends to repeat himself over and over again.
IMO, there is nothing like a great boxing match, too bad they don't happen too often anymore.
I know Im in the minority but I thought Hamil Bisping was much closer then people give credit for. At the end of the fight Hamil couldnt keep his hands up and Bisping was the total aggressor. Not saying it wasnt a bad decision but certainly closer then the criticism suggests.
As for Crocop-he looks like a different fighter...very tentative and really a shell of his former self. Maybe his old lady is cheating on him or something because his focus isnt anything near his previous fights.
As for MMA vs Boxing-Ive said it for years now that the current state of Boxing is the main reason MMA is what it is today. The questionable judging in the Hamil Bisping fight made big news but a questionable decision in boxing isnt news at all and to be expected. Throw in the fact MMA showed this fight for free when boxing expects people to shell out 50 bucks to watch 2 lightweights you've never even heard of. Boxing killed itself with its greed and MMA simply capitalized by executing a wonderful marketing/business plan that has seen it go from Indian Reservations in Podunk Montana to Staples Center and Mandalay Bay. I wish I could have bought stock in the UFC back when matches were done tournament style.
I like a good boxing match myself but these days theyre just few and far between. With MMA at least you know you are going to see one or two good fights for your money. The other great thing about MMA is that what happens happens and they roll with it. They were gearing up for Crocop to fight for the title when he gets knocked out and next thing you know the guy who knocked out Crocop is fighting for the title-in boxing they would have simply fixed the fight to guarantee a crocop victory simply to hype the crap out of it. MMA is very very real whereas boxing has had so many questionable decisions and stoppages it ceased its relevancy. Anyone remember the gift victorys George Foreman got his last couple of fights?
__________________ "The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools."
Last edited by Hipcheck; September 11th, 2007 at 03:27 PM.
Good overall event with just about all you could ask for in a title fight. Hamil was absolutely robbed. I don't see how you can give Bisping the win where he was taken down repeatedly and took more standup dmg throughout the course of the fight.
Ah a lot of posts to catch up on. I'll try to respond to everyone.
I watched Bisping-Hamill a few times. My first impressions were that Hamill won the fight. Watching it again, and I still think he won but I don't think it's the biggest robbery of all time like some people are saying. The second round was close and I thought Bisping won the third round.
Hamil had a number of takedowns but he didn't really do anything with them. He didn't lay and pray but he never really did anything inside Bisping's guard and he was never able to get to mount or anything. In addition Bisping was very active from the bottom.
I'm on the opinion that wrestlers should get credit for taking a guy down and controlling a man but when you don't do that much damage and your opponent has an active guard it is hard to win a round decisively.
All in all I thought Hamil won, his striking was much, much improved but he didn't land many combinations. Plus that's what you get for not finishing the fight. Sure he might have gotten robbed but that's the risk you take when you don't finish the fight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagwagon0
Once again CroCop looks like he doesn't care and appears his career is over.
Yea, Cro-Cop mailed in this performance. Terrible. This is clearly not the same guy who won the Open Weight Grand Prix. He's doing it just for a paycheck now.
Why didn't he try and take Kongo down? Obviously, Kongo has shown he has very little wrestling skills. Cro Cop mounted Kongo very easily late in the first. He got reversed but it took a lot out of Kongo. Instead of trying for a take down Cro Cop did nothing. Terrible.
__________________ "11:19 -- You're not gonna believe this, but J.D. Drew took a called third strike to end the inning.
(Note: Dodgers, Braves and Cardinals fans everywhere are nodding and saying, "Yup ... been there, done that.")
An even bigger concern (at least I think it will be) is what this does for the Fedor talks. The more ex-Pride guys struggle in the HW division like Cro-Cop and Nog have, the less likely Dana will be to hand over the farm to Fedor and his group. I really see that happening. If you're White or the Fertitta's, when you see the (former) #2 heavyweight in the world getting ruined by your "no ones", do you really want to give in to every demand the #1 guy is making?
I don't really think it's a concern. There's two sides to every story. Cro Cop has struggled and Nog has a bit, although he was dominating Herring(a Pride guy) until Herring landed that out of nowhere shot.
But, other Pride imports have done well. Rampage destroyed the UFC's poster boy, Anderson Silva, who didn't really dominate in PRIDE destroyed another poster boy for the UFC.
I don't think its a huge deal. Everyone knows how good Fedor is. There are different circumstances for each fighter. Mirko is arrogant and doesn't really care. Bad combo. I don't believe that Big Nog struggled by any means. He was killing Herring until that lucky kick and even still once he regained his senses he destroyed Herring on the feet.
I'm going out on a limb and saying with Cuban starting his own fed, Fedor never steps in a UFC ring.
Cuban will throw the money that Fedor's ridiculous management wants, let him do Sambo, basically give him a check and say "fill something in"
Plus he can make light work out of the also-rans Cuban will give him
Definitely a possibility. I'm sure Cuban will also sign the Red Devil Sport Club guys that Fedor wants contracts for.
If Cuban signs Barnett too, I'll be happy because I've wanted to see that fight for a long time. Unfortunately other than Barnett there aren't any other legit HW free agents out there.
Usually I post up my recap/where do they go from here after the event but since I was at the ASU game and watched the fight a few days later I never did get that review out. Anyways you guys did a solid job of recapping the PPV so I'll just go straight to the what's next to fire up some conversation. We'll start from the top.
Rampage Jackson
Really solid performance from Rampage. I was very impressed with how he was able to control Henderson when he was on top. I thought he would finish the fight but Hendo is a pretty tough guy. I never thought Rampage was in danger though and he fought a smart fight. Clealry Juanito(who was undefeated on the night) has done wonders with 'Page.
As for what's next, I think a fight with Shogun(provided he beats Forrest) is in order. Hopefully the fight could be made for the December card, if not the Superbowl January card would do just fine.
Dan Henderson
Henderson didn't do anything bad in this fight, I just think Rampage was too good. I didn't think Hendo wrestled enough because his top game is nasty, but I guess Rampage is a pretty tough guy to take down and control.
My hope is that Henderson drops down to 185 for another unification fight against the winner of Silva-Franklin. That division is definitely in need of an injection of talent, especially if Franklin loses again. I would love to see either fight and would have to favor Hendo in either matchup.
Michael Bisping
My initial thoughts were that Bisping lost. After viewing the fight a few more times, I still think he lost but it was a very close fight. Word is that Bisping asked for a rematch with Hamil. I think that's the way to go since it was such a controversial fight.
But I think the best option for Bisping is to move down to 185. It has been speculated in the past and he's definitely a smaller LHW, I think he could make the weight. Clearly he is a bit too small for 205 pounds. Hamil was the much stronger man as well as the bigger man. I can't really picture Bisping succeeding at the highest level with guys like Rampage, Shogun, and even Tito who's a big LHW.
Matt Hamil
Really good performance by Hamil. Myself and a couple other posters commented that we didn't think he had much of a chance because he was too one-dimensional. But he looked great on the feet. Didn't throw too many combos but he definitely threw the more powerful punches. I think he should get a rematch with Bisping. If he wins that, I think the UFC will slowly build him up. Similar to how they built up Rashad.
Cheick Kongo
Kongo fought a good fight but I'll be honest, I think it was more of a lackluster Cro Cop performance than an outstanding Cheick Kongo performance. Cro Cop is still a name though and this performance warrants a big fight for Kongo. I think he would get killed by Big Nog. Maybe the winner of Tim Sylvia Vs. Brandon Vera? Or even a fight with Andre Arlovski would be good.
However, on the Beatdown they mentioned that Kongo was hurt going into the fight and aggravated the injury so he might be out for awhile.
Mirko Cro-Cop
Ah I don't know what it is about this guy. He clearly doesn't seem to give a **** anymore. I don't know what the UFC should do. Maybe throw him in against the loser of Sylvia-Vera...
Houston Alexander
Wow this guy looked impressive. Really explosive, I think the UFC will build him up fairly slowly, no need to rush him in a stacked division. Anxious to see his development.
I don't really think it's a concern. There's two sides to every story. Cro Cop has struggled and Nog has a bit, although he was dominating Herring(a Pride guy) until Herring landed that out of nowhere shot.
But, other Pride imports have done well. Rampage destroyed the UFC's poster boy, Anderson Silva, who didn't really dominate in PRIDE destroyed another poster boy for the UFC.
I don't think its a huge deal. Everyone knows how good Fedor is. There are different circumstances for each fighter. Mirko is arrogant and doesn't really care. Bad combo. I don't believe that Big Nog struggled by any means. He was killing Herring until that lucky kick and even still once he regained his senses he destroyed Herring on the feet.
I'm just thinking that it will give Dana a little bit of pause in the negotiations. CroCop was his big prize a year ago and everyone thought he'd be rolling through the heavyweights. That hasn't happened and Dana is paying him a grip of money to lose 2 of his first 3 fights and the one win was lackluster. He's gotta be worrying about paying a guy a million dollars a fight who COULD have the same thing happen to him. This is a business for him and he knows the UFC doesn't NEED Fedor. Would it be good for them? Sure. It just isn't something that would make a difference to the casual UFC fan.
SmytheKing
