Article re: Blacks In The NFL. Bound To Be Controversial.

[job]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7343980?MSNHPHMA

[Joe Hoya]

Yes, because white people's music culture doesn't have any rebelliousness in it.

Passing the buck.

[The Natural]

bound to be controversial...had it been written by a white columnist.

[Joe Hoya]

Originally Posted by The Natural

bound to be controversial...had it been written by a white columnist.

Well, in a relative sense yes, but even Bill Cosby's speech a few years back was very controversial.

[Unruely35]

haha he said bojanglers!

[!Kings!]

Sad but true to a degree. Pro sports across the board need to rid themselves of all of the highly paid criminals currently in their midst. It would also help if the NCAA adopted tighter standards, forcing student athletes, and football players in particular, to actually attend school and pass core classes so they might actually grow up before becoming multi-millionares.

[Joe Hoya]

Originally Posted by !Kings!

Sad but true to a degree. Pro sports across the board need to rid themselves of all of the highly paid criminals currently in their midst.

Criminals yes, I completely agree. I like what Goodell has done so far cracking down on this stuff.

Hip-hop culture though, no.

Originally Posted by !Kings!

It would also help if the NCAA adopted tighter standards, forcing student athletes, and football players in particular, to actually attend school and pass core classes so they might actually grow up before becoming multi-millionaires.

They do have pretty tight standards, but every kid knows how to find a way around them. The problem is you can't police every single athlete at every single school all the time. You can't force kids to go to class (hell, I didn't go to class a decent amount either), but you can force a GPA requirement... which they do have.

[!Kings!]

Originally Posted by jbruin152

Criminals yes, I completely agree. I like what Goodell has done so far cracking down on this stuff.

Hip-hop culture though, no.


They do have pretty tight standards, but every kid knows how to find a way around them. The problem is you can't police every single athlete at every single school all the time. You can't force kids to go to class (hell, I didn't go to class a decent amount either), but you can force a GPA requirement... which they do have.

I don't really think the trouble is hip-hop culture, I would say it is the gangster culture. Those two are pretty heavily entwined in a lot of respects though.

Schools need to be held accountable individually by the NCAA. Deny bowl slots to teams that don't have verifiable programs where all students must complete a certain level of academic achievment (gpa in core subjects) to be eligible for sports. The NCAA would have to set that level, but it would go along way to making these kids better people. Granted, it will not cure everyone of being an idiot though, but it would limit the numbers of those who made it to the NFL in particular.

[Joe Hoya]

Originally Posted by !Kings!

I don't really think the trouble is hip-hop culture, I would say it is the gangster culture. Those two are pretty heavily entwined in a lot of respects though.

This is just like the "violence on TV/in video games" and "heavy metal music" makes school killers argument. I don't buy it. Music generally reflects life, not the other way around.

I do agree with you that the glorification of gangster culture isn't a positive when it comes to impressionable children, but to blame it for the problems of certain professional athletes is a bit of a stretch.

Articles like this only serve to perpetuate ignorant people's prejudices.

Originally Posted by !Kings!

Schools need to be held accountable individually by the NCAA. Deny bowl slots to teams that don't have verifiable programs where all students must complete a certain level of academic achievement (gpa in core subjects) to be eligible for sports. The NCAA would have to set that level, but it would go along way to making these kids better people. Granted, it will not cure everyone of being an idiot though, but it would limit the numbers of those who made it to the NFL in particular.

Um, this does exist. Kids still do become academically ineligible for grades. Just ask Chauncey Washington who sat out two years because of grades.

And last I checked, there is no intelligence standard for the NFL.

[job]

Last I checked, there is no intelligence standard for good or bad behaviour.

[Joe Hoya]

Originally Posted by job

Last I checked, there is no intelligence standard for good or bad behaviour.

This is also true.

[!Kings!]

Originally Posted by jbruin152

This is just like the "violence on TV/in video games" and "heavy metal music" makes school killers argument. I don't buy it. Music generally reflects life, not the other way around.

I don't buy those arguements either, but that is not my point. The gangster lifestyle has been glorified by large portions of society to a point where it is considered fashionable by some. Thus encouraging the behavior the writer was talking about. If society as a whole tolerates such behavior, while other elements actually promote it, that makes it an easy trip for some to take in the wrong direction.

Originally Posted by jbruin152

I do agree with you that the glorification of gangster culture isn't a positive when it comes to impressionable children, but to blame it for the problems of certain professional athletes is a bit of a stretch.

I disagree. Look at the past incidents with more than a few of these players. If it walks like a duck, etc,etc. They may not still be active members, but their past is evident in their behavior now.

Originally Posted by jbruin152

Articles like this only serve to perpetuate ignorant people's prejudices.

I agree with this for the most part in a general sense, but the author is pretty specific. He does not paint all black players with the same brush, he specifically refers to several individuals, and their selfish and destructive behavior, and refers to a possible trend he believes is occurring. Personally I believe he is correct in the sense that too many of these athletes have placed too much emphasis on themselves to allow for the betterment of the team, and ultimately that may lead owners and coaches to stay away from certain types of players. He could have been more tactful, but then again, most writers want controversy.

Originally Posted by jbruin152

Um, this does exist. Kids still do become academically ineligible for grades. Just ask Chauncey Washington who sat out two years because of grades.

And last I checked, there is no intelligence standard for the NFL.

I know that it does, but until it is the rule rather than the exception at all institutions, you will have players who can barely form a sentence telling children what kind of soup to eat on TV.

Here is one article I found, there are more, but most seem to paint the same picture.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...gewanted=print

[Joe Hoya]

Originally Posted by !Kings!

I don't buy those arguments either, but that is not my point. The gangster lifestyle has been glorified by large portions of society to a point where it is considered fashionable by some. Thus encouraging the behavior the writer was talking about. If society as a whole tolerates such behavior, while other elements actually promote it, that makes it an easy trip for some to take in the wrong direction.

I think you're misreading me. The part you quoted and responded to was referring to "hip-hop culture", which is not one and the same as "gangster culture." There is a very necessary distinction.

Also, my biggest problem is this passage:
"A little-publicized fact is that the Colts and the Patriots—the league's model franchises—are two of the whitest teams in the NFL. If you count rookie receiver Anthony Gonzalez, the Colts opened the season with an NFL-high 24 white players on their 53-man roster. Toss in linebacker Naivote Taulawakeiaho 'Freddie' Keiaho and 47 percent of Tony Dungy's defending Super Bowl-champion roster is non-African-American. Bill Belichick's Patriots are nearly as white, boasting a 23-man non-African-American roster, counting linebacker Tiaina 'Junior' Seau and backup quarterback Matt Gutierrez."

There is a very obviously implied cause-effect relationship: they win because they're white. Talk about ignorantly oversimplifying things.

Originally Posted by !Kings!

I disagree. Look at the past incidents with more than a few of these players. If it walks like a duck, etc,etc. They may not still be active members, but their past is evident in their behavior now.

So what about the players who listen to hip-hop, dress hip-hop, talk hip-hop, and don't behave in this manner? If you are trying to establish some sort of cause and effect relationship here, you need to consider these sort of things.

I'm of the "punish the transgressors, not the entire group" belief. Indict Bengals and Chiefs management for lack of discipline, not hip-hop culture in general.

Originally Posted by !Kings!

I know that it does, but until it is the rule rather than the exception at all institutions, you will have players who can barely form a sentence telling children what kind of soup to eat on TV.

The NCAA is, first and foremost, a business. And they can't patrol every single athlete without some very serious privacy infringement issues. It's sad but true that a lot of student-athletes don't take the first half of that term very seriously.

Your only proposal so far is a strict GPA cutoff, which already exists.

Originally Posted by !Kings!

Here is one article I found, there are more, but most seem to paint the same picture.

First off, let's separate football and basketball from the other sports, because I'm guessing the other sports have far less of a problem in this department.

I'm not disagreeing with you that college student-athletes in the revenue-generating sports (football and basketball) don't take the academics very seriously. Anybody who went to a major D-I university knows how it works.

But it's also fairly obvious why they don't:
1. They have far less financial (not cultural) incentive to pass Classics 10 or Astro 3 than they have to get better on the field.
2. They're usually not as academically gifted as the rest of the student body, because the admissions standards for scholarship athletes are much lower than the rest of the student body.

[ASUcruz]

What was the purpose of posting up this article in the first place?

[job]

Originally Posted by ASUcruz

What was the purpose of posting up this article in the first place?

To spur interesting conversation/debate like any other thread.

What is the purpose of your post asking the purpose for this thread?