The NHL & Fighting-Another Theory

[Hipcheck]

I used to solely blame Bettman on the pussification of the NHL. This years playoffs in particular-seems whenever there is a scrum of any sort the camera either gets there late or decides for some reason to show the backup goalie sitting on the bench or one of the on ice goalies who happens to be the farthest away from the scrum.

No secret im not a fan of Bettman and used to solely blame him for instigator rule and other ideas of that sort. But Ive reconsidered.

I dont think its Bettman as much as the Owners. To the owners, players are merely assets. They pay them good money to play the game. While the fans love a good fight filled game and fighting in general-the owners probably dont enjoy seeing their paid players risk injury. Its like a NASCAR owner not wanting to see a race with a lot of crashes. Why would an owner want to see his players take any extra amount of risk to themselves? Sure some have insurance and what not but star players draw revenue by playing. Owners may well feel that fighting is unnecessary or at least minimally important and more of a risk then reward.

So as easy as it is to blame Bettman, I have to think the large anti fighting contingent probably stems from those who have the most to lose and thus in spite of what the fans want, economic interests will always trump fan interest.


Thoughts?

[Bogey Man]

Stars don't fight.

They just get run, face-first, into the boards by marginal players who no longer fear retribution.

[Hipcheck]

Originally Posted by Bogey Man

Stars don't fight.

They just get run, face-first, into the boards by marginal players who no longer fear retribution.

Youre not going to get an arguement from me....care to comment on the crux of the post?

[Bogey Man]

Originally Posted by Hipcheck

Youre not going to get an arguement from me....care to comment on the crux of the post?

The two sentences I wrote sum up all I have to say on the subject.

To elaborate, I think you're right (to a point), that Bettman and the board of governors instituted the instigator rule for the purposes you mention, but I think the effect has been opposite of what they hoped for.

Case in point, Patrice Bergeron.

Despite this and other instances, the instigator rule remains.

I don't know why.
The product (IMO) was much better without it.
As far as injuries go, are the stars getting hurt more or less since it was instituted?
I don't know. It'd be nice to see some data pre and post instigator rule to give us an idea.

Another big reason for the instigator rule was to lessen fighting to improve the league's public/media-image and make it more family friendly to bring in more fans and improve the possibility of getting a fat national TV broadcast contract.

I don't think that has worked either so I don't know why the rule remains.

[D0wntime]

its more complicated than that. coaches dont want their players fighting either. look at laviolette in carolina. not sure if he still has this policy, but he used to have a no-fight policy in his locker room.

also, a lot of coaches would rather have a skilled player on the bench rather than a goon who plays a minute and a half.

i think the real difference is that fighters arent what they used to be. before an enforcer type player had other skills. take marty mcsorley for example. he could skate, move the puck, and was a decent defenseman. does boogard have any hockey skills? now fights are staged. they rarely happen in the heat of the moment, and thus dont have any real impact on a game, whether it is protecting a star or gaining momentum for the team.

so, its no surprise that skilled players who play with an edge rarely drop the gloves. why would they sit in the box for 5 minutes or more when they are much more valuable to a team on the ice?

[Hipcheck]

Originally Posted by Bogey Man

Another big reason for the instigator rule was to lessen fighting to improve the league's public/media-image and make it more family friendly to bring in more fans and improve the possibility of getting a fat national TV broadcast contract.

I don't think that has worked either so I don't know why the rule remains.

I couldnt agree with you more. IMO, the timing was actually particularly awful with the popularity of the UFC. When more and more extreme sports started becoming popular the NHL chose to becoming more tame.

[Hipcheck]

Originally Posted by D0wntime

i think the real difference is that fighters arent what they used to be. before an enforcer type player had other skills. take marty mcsorley for example. he could skate, move the puck, and was a decent defenseman. does boogard have any hockey skills? now fights are staged. they rarely happen in the heat of the moment, and thus dont have any real impact on a game, whether it is protecting a star or gaining momentum for the team.

Disagree with this point....did Dave Brown or Grimson have skills? Matt Johnson had the same skill set as Boogard yet still managed to play 8 or so seasons in the NHL. I think the difference between low skilled enforcers and skilled players who fight is still roughly the same ratio.

Look at the fight leaders. Roughly 1/2 are actually semi skilled players who other game skills. Whats also apparent is the increase in fights by guys who play an antagonizer/oest role.

Jared Boll (CBJ) - 27
Riley Cote (PHI) - 24
Zach Stortini (EDM) - 23
George Parros (ANA) - 23
David Clarkson (NJD) - 21
Ian Laperriere (COL) - 20
Daniel Carcillo (PHO) - 19
Colton Orr (NYR) - 18
Eric Godard (CAL) - 17
Krys Barch (DAL) - 17
Adam Burish (CHI) - 16
DJ King (STL) - 14
Aaron Voros (MIN) - 14
Jody Shelley (SJS) - 13
Georges Laraque (PIT) - 13
Eric Boulton (ATL) - 13
Milan Lucic (BOS) - 13
Steve Ott (DAL) - 13
Raitis Ivanans (LAK) - 12
Donald Brashear (WAS) - 12

[Dr. Naysay]

All this bull**** started when Disney entered the league. Eisner led the owners charge for making the game more "Casual Fan Friendly" and even though Disney is long gone and the current Ducks are the complete opposite... the effect still lingers.

I agree that the owners should share the blame... but I don't think you've gauged their motivations accurately.

[Bogey Man]

Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay

All this bull**** started when Disney entered the league. Eisner led the owners charge for making the game more "Casual Fan Friendly" and even though Disney is long gone and the current Ducks are the complete opposite... the effect still lingers.

...and their current GM has spearheaded a campaign to have the instigator rule changed.

[D0wntime]

Originally Posted by Hipcheck

Disagree with this point....did Dave Brown or Grimson have skills? Matt Johnson had the same skill set as Boogard yet still managed to play 8 or so seasons in the NHL. I think the difference between low skilled enforcers and skilled players who fight is still roughly the same ratio.

Look at the fight leaders. Roughly 1/2 are actually semi skilled players who other game skills. Whats also apparent is the increase in fights by guys who play an antagonizer/oest role.

Jared Boll (CBJ) - 27
Riley Cote (PHI) - 24
Zach Stortini (EDM) - 23
George Parros (ANA) - 23
David Clarkson (NJD) - 21
Ian Laperriere (COL) - 20
Daniel Carcillo (PHO) - 19
Colton Orr (NYR) - 18
Eric Godard (CAL) - 17
Krys Barch (DAL) - 17
Adam Burish (CHI) - 16
DJ King (STL) - 14
Aaron Voros (MIN) - 14
Jody Shelley (SJS) - 13
Georges Laraque (PIT) - 13
Eric Boulton (ATL) - 13
Milan Lucic (BOS) - 13
Steve Ott (DAL) - 13
Raitis Ivanans (LAK) - 12
Donald Brashear (WAS) - 12

you cannot compare most of those guys with mcsorely or any past enforcer type. carcilo, laperriere, and lucic are the only ones that i see that play a similar style. and you see they are the minority. none of these other guys, had they played at the time and played on the same team, would have been on the ice at the same time as gretzky for example. it would seem to me, if an enforcers role is to protect the skilled players, they would have to be able to play with the skilled players. instead what usually happens now, is a goon will fight a goon and say "good luck." it isnt in retaliation to anything, nor is it designed to protect anyone.

finally, for those who think the instigator rule is to blame, there is no evidence to taht end. in fact, how many times do we see players flying to each others rescue despite the instigator. i concede it is possible that more people would do so if the instigator rule were eliminated. but my point that enforcers today serve a very limited, and all but useless function still holds true.

as long as enforcers can only fight and not contribute offensively or defensively, they will remain little used, and largely irrelevant characters. when they can skate and perform with the stars, then you may see fewer instances of stars getting run, since they can act as more of a deterrent.