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About This Page: This is a discussion on NHL Talk within the LetsGoKings.com forums, at Los Angeles Kings Hockey Fan Forum. Originally Posted by ibleedkngs
If you don't like the Anthem or the people that stand during it, go back to your damn Country. Very simple.
Hell yeah! And if you
If you don't like the Anthem or the people that stand during it, go back to your damn Country. Very simple.
Hell yeah! And if you were born in America and don't have a country to go back to you should be rounded up and put in camps. In fact, I don't see why they don't pass a law that says if you don't stand during the anthem - you can get arrested! That was we can start filtering out these unpatriotic bastards and stop any kind of dissent before it starts.
__________________ i beseech the lord, clear my head
before once again i scar the soul of that girl in my bed
o lord clear my bed
for once again i scar the soul of that girl in my head
Just dropping in on this thread. I haven't read anything recently but I'm sure it's exciting.
__________________ The Kings are either on a magic carpet ride to the promised land or riding a psychotic horse running toward a burning stable. We'll know in 3 years.
I'm going to be honest here... you bore the heck outta me,
and yet you respond, again.
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Your first sentence is wrong. You did mention tone before, in the post I quoted in fact, but you can't seem to remember what you wrote. I don't want to bother arguing with someone who can't even remember what they're saying.
nowhere in that first post did i mention the tone of other posts. i did not point to one persons post and say that they were being rude, condescending, etc. i was not taking issue with anyones tone. maybe i shouldnt bother arguing with someone who cant even read what is actually written. again just another indication with what is wrong with this entire conversation. an individual asks a valid question, makes a valid point, and someone tries to turn it into something that it is not. congratulations on continuing a senseless exercise.
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Moreover, you just say the same thing over and over. I realize it's because you think I have a problem with reading comprehension,
bingo. doesnt seem like you have improved in that area
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I'm glad to see you are admitting you're a condesending d-bag. It's the first step in making progress away from being that way. (yes, being condesending and a d-bag go hand-in-hand.)
condescending yes. d-bag no. they dont go hand in hand. foul odors and d-bags go hand in hand. and i only condescend to those who prove themselves incapable of engaging in an intelligent discussion.
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Furthermore, I pity people like you. No sympathize or empathize, pity. It's not that symbols lack meaning, it's your inability to see it, it's that you are incapable of being able to accept a tradition of the American culture, and you take offense to anyone else doing so.
again, when did i ever say that i take offense? is this how you participate in conversations with those with whom you disagree, completely misrepresent what they say and then make up other things to prove them wrong? now you know why i have to write the same thing over and over. and, you can pity me all you want, i really dont care how you feel towards me. you are conversing with me on a message board for crying out loud.
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You're hopeless.
again you are right. i have no hope that this thread will ever get back on topic.
The REAL problem thinly veiled behind the nonsensical name calling and finger pointing is that we all want a voice. If you don't like it being played at sporting events (for what ever reason) you have a legitimate gripe. Truth be told, it is out of context. NOW, if every team made their own anthem and played THOSE before the game, that would be fitting. Problem is, most of them would suck. Do you really want to hear "I Love L.A. before every puck drop at Staples? There's nothing patriotic or unpatriotic about a sporting event, unless as has been stated it's an international contest in which case it goes quite well.
Now, in the finals between Carolina and Edmonton when the crowds would sing along with the anthem so loud and with such clarity that the gentleman who had been elected to sing them just held the mic up, it seemed to me like THAT raised the energy level, and when Canadians are singing OUR national anthem and we're singing THEIRS, that's something I would have hated to miss out on.
Like I said, I like the national anthem. If you get the chance, go to Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego before 8 am any given day of the week. You'll see recruits and Drill Instructors all over the place carrying out a myriad of tasks. At 7:55 an "alert" should should letting every one on the Depot know that in five minutes, "Colors" will sound. When it does, what was just seconds ago a bustling city behind those walls with the sounds of shouting, vehicles, cadence being called... are all drowning each other out, is now SILENT but for the sound of the colors being raised. Every moving thing rests. Every speaking mouth stops. It almost seems like if it was raining the clouds would hold their downpour. Then at sundown, the same thing happens with the lowering of the colors, and at 10:00 pm, taps sounds to signal the end of the day. The same taps that is played at funerals and memorial services and again, utter silence except for that bugle (Which sadly of course is now just a recording). The feelings that are evoked experiencing that first hand is the same feeling that I experience when the anthem is performed properly. And it NEVER gets old or stale. Never.
However, that's on base, and at military functions... no puck drop or kick off or opening pitch.
And I think I can say with some mild form of authority as a Marine, that a perfectly patriotic American, or immigrant can do whatever they feel necessary during the playing of the anthem before a game, as long as they show respect for those who are (for lack of a better term) participating. To berate and segregate people for not doing so is to take a step in the wrong direction. If you truly love this country for the freedoms you are bestowed by simply living here, then you have got to extend that same freedom to all of her citizens.
If we could collectively get over ourselves, then this wouldn't be an issue.
Please just extend some common courtesy to each other, and realize that the fact that you don't like everything about each other is perfectly fine, and it's also what makes this country what it is. It angers me beyond description to watch the flag burn, but there's a subtle and hidden beauty in the fact that when people do that, they're exercising the freedoms that blood was shed (symbolized by the red stripes) for them to have. It means somewhere, something went right. So really FishMonger, when people use their freedoms to express discontent with things that symbolize the sacrifices made for their freedoms... it means it's working. It also means that you have every right to get pissed about it. But it doesn't mean we start kicking people out of the country for it.
Alright, it's late (for me in the midwest), so if this seems off track or incoherent, I apologize. Sorry for the length as well. Just tired of people arguing for the same thing just not realizing it.
Oh, and when I have more time I'll take this in a different direction and explain why nationalism disguised as patriotism has historically done nothing but harm the world.
__________________ Better than a sandwich and far more entertaining than bread.~kingsjohn/Obediah "You are out of your mind" ~Deeker "All reactionaries have is Conflict as a tool. Consensus is a foreign word." ~go
let me just say that our nation was founded on liberal ideals. there is no contradiction between liberalism and conservatism. they are perfectly compatible and not opposites because conservatism is a degree of belief, whereas liberalism is a particular political philosophy rooted in the enlightenment. the principals of personal freedom and liberty are the cornerstone of liberal thought that emerged during that period, and codified in our constitution and bill of rights. that we all possess rights granted by god, that no government can infringe upon is the definition of liberalism. read a book, you just might find you may learn something. though, judging from the tone of most of the folks who are participating in this thread, learning something new is just not a high priority.
Wow, that is pretty condescending right there.
I especially love the part where you say that the country was founded on liberal policies. Nevermind the fact the main ingredient of liberal ideals is "change." Therefore, declaring independence from Britain at the onset of the Revolutionary War was liberal because it sought to change the way that the American colonies had been living.
Once American gained her Independence and "Don't Tread on Me" became a mainstay in American psyche those liberal ideals of the late 18th Century became the Conservative ideals that have spurred America to shove a boot up the ass of anyone that dared **** with her.
Fact of the matter is this...if today's liberals were in charge of the American colonies pre 1776 then we'd still be Britain's bitch. To claim today that they were liberal ideals (which is actually true) without explaining how liberal and conservative ideals have changed over the past 232 years is shady at the very least. If you ask me it's downright deceitful.
As for the anthem, I still haven't heard a decent reason as to why liberals cannot show their dissent in another more constructive way? Like I said, the fact that people care enough about the issue shows me that they care enough about this country. There are ways, more effective ways, to get your points across without disrespecting the flag, anthem or nation. You just have to think of them.
Or is it too much to ask of such "enlightened thinkers" to come up with something new and improved?
As for the anthem, I still haven't heard a decent reason as to why liberals cannot show their dissent in another more constructive way? Like I said, the fact that people care enough about the issue shows me that they care enough about this country. There are ways, more effective ways, to get your points across without disrespecting the flag, anthem or nation. You just have to think of them.
For me, it's not about dissent or getting my point across (assuming i have one). It's just I really don't need or want to hear it before "Fix You (Ladies and Gentlemen, YOUR LOS ANGELES KINGS!!!!!" and "Are You Ready?!?!?!?!"
I especially love the part where you say that the country was founded on liberal policies. Nevermind the fact the main ingredient of liberal ideals is "change." Therefore, declaring independence from Britain at the onset of the Revolutionary War was liberal because it sought to change the way that the American colonies had been living.
Once American gained her Independence and "Don't Tread on Me" became a mainstay in American psyche those liberal ideals of the late 18th Century became the Conservative ideals that have spurred America to shove a boot up the ass of anyone that dared **** with her.
Fact of the matter is this...if today's liberals were in charge of the American colonies pre 1776 then we'd still be Britain's bitch. To claim today that they were liberal ideals (which is actually true) without explaining how liberal and conservative ideals have changed over the past 232 years is shady at the very least. If you ask me it's downright deceitful.
As for the anthem, I still haven't heard a decent reason as to why liberals cannot show their dissent in another more constructive way? Like I said, the fact that people care enough about the issue shows me that they care enough about this country. There are ways, more effective ways, to get your points across without disrespecting the flag, anthem or nation. You just have to think of them.
Or is it too much to ask of such "enlightened thinkers" to come up with something new and improved?
thanks for saying exactly the same thing that i was saying. you think what you have to say is different from what i have to say, because like others in this thread you are misrepresenting what i am saying. i said nothing about liberal policies. i clearly wrote "liberal ideals" which are ideals of freedom and liberty based on a concept of negative rights. i dont think that this is the correct forum for this discussion, but let me say that if what i said was "shady" or "deceitful" then you are guilty of the same since you dont explain it either. the truth is that there are very very very few people in this country who do not value those liberal beliefs upon which this country was founded. it is also true that there have been numerous times throughout our history when governors from across the political spectrum, often with the support of the public, have attempted to curtail those same ideals.
once again, the original question had to do with why we play the national anthem at hockey games and whether or not we should. it had absolutely nothing to do with planning ways for individuals to protest the national anthem. you took that question and decided that you wanted to prove to yourself that you knew that doc had some ulterior motive behind his post. and you continue to hijack this thread and make it into something that it is not. which once again speaks to my original post and the reasons that i not in favor of playing the national anthem at hockey games.
o and for you to accuse someone else of condescension is outrageous.
For me, it's not about dissent or getting my point across (assuming i have one). It's just I really don't need or want to hear it before "Fix You (Ladies and Gentlemen, YOUR LOS ANGELES KINGS!!!!!" and "Are You Ready?!?!?!?!"
For me it's the pain of having to sit through another painful 5 minutes of some horrible singer trying to be different and sounding like nails on a chalkboard - or even worse - listening to Zack Wyld play it.
TonySCV
