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About This Page: This is a discussion on NHL Talk within the LetsGoKings.com forums, at Los Angeles Kings Hockey Fan Forum. Originally Posted by JMFJ3
I'll take that as a long winded way to say "no, ive never played hockey"
how about you explain to me and the other 95% of
I'll take that as a long winded way to say "no, ive never played hockey"
how about you explain to me and the other 95% of the people on this board WHO HAVE NEVER PLAYED HOCKEY how playing in some scrub beer league helps you understand what happens on NHL ice any better. Specifically adhering to Bertuzzi/Moore or McSorley/Brashear.
how about you explain to me and the other 95% of the people on this board WHO HAVE NEVER PLAYED HOCKEY how playing in some scrub beer league helps you understand what happens on NHL ice any better. Specifically adhering to Bertuzzi/Moore or McSorley/Brashear.
I played in full contact leagues from the ages of 13 - 22, which did involve fighting, checking, and conduct for getting back at players on the other team. While it's not the NHL by any means, I think it gives me a better understanding of what happened in that game.
I played in full contact leagues from the ages of 13 - 22, which did involve fighting, checking, and conduct for getting back at players on the other team. While it's not the NHL by any means, I think it gives me a better understanding of what happened in that game.
Is that the long winded way of saying that you don't have an answer to my question?
Last edited by OrangePuck; April 11th, 2008 at 04:58 PM.
Is that the long winded way of saying that you don't have an answer to my question?
Your question was how playing in a beer league (which is non contact with no fighting) helps me understand something that happened in a full contact fighting league, which it doesnt. Playing in a full contact league with fighting does help me understand the mentality of legal/dirty hits, fighting, and conduct for getting even with someone on the other team.
Your question was how playing in a beer league (which is non contact with no fighting) helps me understand something that happened in a full contact fighting league, which it doesnt. Playing in a full contact league with fighting does help me understand the mentality of legal/dirty hits, fighting, and conduct for getting even with someone on the other team.
Not knowing you personally idicates that I also do not know what level of hockey you have played. Therefore my "beer league" statement is symbolic in nature. Saying "beer league" is akin to saying "unless someone paid you a salary big enough for you to live on then whatever hockey you have played doesn't amount to a hill fo beans if you so choose to use your past playing experience to trump someone in an argument over what happens on NHL ice."
I didn't want to be accused of being "long winded" again so I went with the beer league comment instead.
You know you're my pal, OrangePuck, but come on...if Bertuzzi had done what he did to Steve Moore to a Duck like, let's say, Chris Kunitz, your feelings would be quite different. You'd have wanted him banned for life. Kind of like Marty McSorley was. Bertuzzi should never have been allowed to play in the NHL again, and if not a lifetime ban, at least as long as it takes for Steve Moore to lace up a pair of skates (which is never going to happen again). You say that Kings fans give Marty more of a pass, and maybe you're right...but Marty DID get a harsher punishment than Bert, and Brashear is still playing in the NHL, not to mention the fact that Brashear is one of the most hated players in the league. Bertuzzi, a millionaire douchebag, ended the career of a rookie who didn't have a chance to establish himself in the league yet. So you tell me, whose offense was worse? If Todd Bertuzzi had been signed by the Kings, I would've been livid.
You know you're my pal, OrangePuck, but come on...if Bertuzzi had done what he did to Steve Moore to a Duck like, let's say, Chris Kunitz, your feelings would be quite different. You'd have wanted him banned for life. Kind of like Marty McSorley was. Bertuzzi should never have been allowed to play in the NHL again, and if not a lifetime ban, at least as long as it takes for Steve Moore to lace up a pair of skates (which is never going to happen again). You say that Kings fans give Marty more of a pass, and maybe you're right...but Marty DID get a harsher punishment than Bert, and Brashear is still playing in the NHL, not to mention the fact that Brashear is one of the most hated players in the league. Bertuzzi, a millionaire douchebag, ended the career of a rookie who didn't have a chance to establish himself in the league yet. So you tell me, whose offense was worse? If Todd Bertuzzi had been signed by the Kings, I would've been livid.
Gabby V.
GO KINGS GO!!!
Gary Suter's cross check ruined a 5yr/$50mil dollar investment and at the time my favorite player. He got 4 games. I was upset but got over it rather quickly and never once complained about him being allowed to finish out his career in the league.
Things happen and sometimes they get out of hand. However, unless you can prove to me the premeditated intention to end or ruin a persons career I will NEVER condemn a person for the rest of their lives like many people have condemned and hate Bertuzzi.
I'll save that energy for pedophiles and murderers.
I'm not a big fan of backing down from an on ice fight. Real life? Different story but if you want to be a player in the NHL then you need to understand that at least once or twice in your life you'll have to fight. It's always been my contention that had Moore just accepted the challenge he would not have been hurt. Maybe he would have gotten his bell rung but it would not have turned into what it did. As for Brashear he's a goon and should never skate away period.
OP.... come on. You and I see eye to eye on many things, but you are flat out wrong about both Marty, and Bert.
What Marty did was inexcusable. It was a clear sign that it was time for him to hang up the skates for good. At the time, Brash could own him in every single way, both in a scrap, and as a hockey player. Somewhere deep inside, Marty must have known it too; that's why he went to the extreme and snapped.
Brash had no reason to fight McSorley, but being the classy douce that he is, he kept talking trash and sent Marty over the edge. Marty is his prime wouldn't have done that, and I doubt that Brash would have treated him like a chump and refused to fight him either.
The punishment effectively ended his career, as it should have. It was a sad ending for Marty, but he made his own bed. Personally, I'll always love the McSorley who wore the silver and black. The other Marty... Not so much.
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There is the beauty of the parallell. I have been called many names for stating my belief that Moore was done in by the fact that his own teammate tackled Bertuzzi from behind and the two of them fell on Moore's back. Had that not happened he would only have to deal with the Beukeboom style punch he took to the back of the head. People argued that it's all Bertuzzi's fault because he set the chain of events in motion. However, when McSorely set off his own chain of events all I hear is well Donald should strap his lid on a little tighter. Personally I don't see ANY difference.
You don't hear that from me. What you will hear is the facts. Bertuzzi is a big league chumpstain.
Real hockey players have a code, and it's not the gangland mentality of 'it's over when I say it's over'. The hit on Nazzy was clean, yet it took a second meeting and a score that was getting out of hand, for Bert to jump into action. Moore had answered the call with Cooke, a player who incidentally, is much more similar in size. If Bert wants to fight, I believe Peter Worrell was around.
Has Bertuzzi ever taken on a player his own size? Did he cry like a baby afterwords when he delivered his 'so-called' apology? Respectable hockey players don't do this type of thing. 'Real men' don't do this type of thing. Seriously, stop defending the guy; it sullies your good name (as if being a Ducks fan isn't enough )
I prayed that the Kings wouldn't acquire Bertuzzi. It was bad enough to get the classless hack that is Crawford, for much the same reasons as Bert. I understand saying that Bert wasn't slashing Morrow in the face, cause he wasn't, but I wouldn't defend the guy any further than that.
Bottom line: Brash did a lot more to deserve what he got, however, neither player deserved what happened to them, and both perpetrators deserved the harshest penalties possible. Moore was the only one who undeservedly paid for everything with his career, while Bert gets another crack at winning the Cup.
GO DALLAS, if not for any other reason than karma.
What this all boils down to is respect or rather a lack thereof.
Bertuzzi, Morrow, Pronger, McSorley (@the end of his career), etc. (The list could be and is much longer if I wanted to look them all up) All have clearly demonstrated a severe lack of respect for their fellow players and all made choices that they should be held accountable for.
The NHL has been ineffective and extremely uneven in their response to this type of incident, IMO.
As to the specifics of this incident; even a criminal can be a victim of crime so don't try to rationalize the act of an unsportsmanlike player towards another player...even if the victim is unsportsmanlike too.
It's wrong and foul and not what I pay to see when I go to an NHL game.
Try telling that to Moore, and the next guy Bert destroys the career of.
__________________ -Fish
"When you can't run anymore you crawl, and when you can't crawl, when you can't do that..."
Karma to whomever can finish that.
IMHO both incidents should have called for a lifetime NHL ban. I am sure OP will see it as Moore taking a dive that's why he got injured but come on Sergio, that was a guy playing hockey and got punched from behind in the temple then pounced on as his face slammed the ice. The Marty / Brashear deal was a similar situation. ANY time a stick is used as a weapon the guy should be thrown out of the league for LIFE.
If ANYONE walked up to another person on the streets and either sucker punched them from behind or hits them with a stick it is plain & simple assault and would be jail time and not some silly little fine & suspension from work.
Bertuzzi is and has been a hack throughout his career. McSorley had 1 incident he should have been removed from the NHL for. Not a career of **** like this.
__________________ Some people are like slinkeys, they serve no purpose but bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
GabrielaV2
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I'm a Canadian dammit!! 
2nd
