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About This Page: This is a discussion on LA Kings Talk within the LetsGoKings.com forums, at Los Angeles Kings Hockey Fan Forum. Originally Posted by maddenjohn
I really hope your not referring to his absence from the team in 05-06. He left for solid reasons that any person in their right
I really hope your not referring to his absence from the team in 05-06. He left for solid reasons that any person in their right mind would. And this year, getting jacked by Smyth...
Not to sound unsympathetic, but it's not like LaBarbera's the only NHLer whose had to deal with that stuff. Modry had to deal with it this year with a sick father, but he was still one of the better defenseman for a while.
But you demonstrated Salty Dog's point perfectly. There's always a reason for LaBarbera to be inconsistent. What about showing up out of shape and losing his job to a tandem of Cloutier/Garon? Then he comes back from an injury; and of course, players can't be expected to play adequately when returning from injury... except Frolov.
Not to mention he was still inconsistent before the injury... his suckitude was just magnified.
LaBarbera is a piece in the mess known as the LA Kings Goaltending Tandem. Until he proves he can play consistently for ONE full season, he's deserving of whatever criticisms he gets for inconsistency, in my opinion.
Regarding the importance of "Elite Goaltenders".
2007 - J.S. Giguere
2006 - C. Ward
2004 - N. Khabibulin
2003 - M. Brodeur
2002 - D. Hasek
2001 - P Roy
2000 - M. Brodeur
Every one of those goaltenders is either "elite" or at least "pretty damn good". The question Kings fans need to ask themselves is when have they had a goaltender that was good enough to be on this list? I don't think Labarbera, Cloutier, Garon, Fiset, etc. have ever or will ever be good enough to be on this list. Storr maybe if he had been developed the right way. Bernier has a chance, Ersberg probably not but he can maybe hold the fort until Bernier gets there.
As long as you feel that way, I feel better about my position.
And what if Vancouver does land that big UFA goal scorer? Then they should be in business right? Sounds a little more promising than circle-jerking for Tavares all next year.
Yeah and if we happened to get Tavares and/or Stamkos and have that kind of young talent available early in their careers at below market prices and then go out and trade our surplus assets for a #1 goalie, acquire a true #1 goalie via the UFA route, or Bernier turns out to be the man, then how do you feel about the Kings' chances vs those of the Canucks'.
You stick with your one man team (Luongo). I'll take the Kings.
BTW, no one remembers the degree of sucking a couple of years down the road, so having Luongo and missing the playoffs doesn't mean dick, and isn't any better than finishing in 30th, especially when the team in 30th is in the middle of a rebuild.
Regarding the importance of "Elite Goaltenders".
2007 - J.S. Giguere
2006 - C. Ward
2004 - N. Khabibulin
2003 - M. Brodeur
2002 - D. Hasek
2001 - P Roy
2000 - M. Brodeur
Every one of those goaltenders is either "elite" or at least "pretty damn good". The question Kings fans need to ask themselves is when have they had a goaltender that was good enough to be on this list? I don't think Labarbera, Cloutier, Garon, Fiset, etc. have ever or will ever be good enough to be on this list. Storr maybe if he had been developed the right way. Bernier has a chance, Ersberg probably not but he can maybe hold the fort until Bernier gets there.
you realize that if Washington wins today, Cam Ward will miss the playoffs in the two consecutive seasons following his Stanley Cup... and don't forget, Cam came on in relief of Martin Gerber and got really hot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17
Yeah and if we happened to get Tavares and/or Stamkos and have that kind of young talent available early in their careers at below market prices and then go out and trade our surplus assets for a #1 goalie, acquire a true #1 goalie via the UFA route, or Bernier turns out to be the man, then how do you feel about the Kings' chances vs those of the Canucks'.
You stick with your one man team (Luongo). I'll take the Kings.
BTW, no one remembers the degree of sucking a couple of years down the road, so having Luongo and missing the playoffs doesn't mean dick, and isn't any better than finishing in 30th, especially when the team in 30th is in the middle of a rebuild.
Vancouver is going to have to start rebuilding that team this summer... Brian Burke built a one-line team which was never designed to go beyond two rounds of the playoffs and Dave Nonis did zero to remedy the problem other than making the deal for Luongo because everyone and their mother felt that goaltending was the problem.
Philadelphia thought that way as well and threw Cechmanek under a bus one year and threw Hackett under the same bus the following year.
Yeah and if we happened to get Tavares and/or Stamkos and have that kind of young talent available early in their careers at below market prices and then go out and trade our surplus assets for a #1 goalie, acquire a true #1 goalie via the UFA route, or Bernier turns out to be the man, then how do you feel about the Kings' chances vs those of the Canucks'.
You stick with your one man team (Luongo). I'll take the Kings.
BTW, no one remembers the degree of sucking a couple of years down the road, so having Luongo and missing the playoffs doesn't mean dick, and isn't any better than finishing in 30th, especially when the team in 30th is in the middle of a rebuild.
Agreed. With the exception of the '94 Rangers most Stanley Cup winning teams did it with a core of players drafted and developed in house. You need young talent throughout the lineup. Having said that, about half the Cup winners in recent years did not develop their own goaltender. They take a long time to develop and usually are traded once or twice before they win. For every Brodeur in New Jersey there is a Hasek or Khabibulin. So I hope that Bernier is the guy for the Kings. But if he is not I hope they make a deal in the next year or two for the goaltender that will win a Cup.
you realize that if Washington wins today, Cam Ward will miss the playoffs in the two consecutive seasons following his Stanley Cup... and don't forget, Cam came on in relief of Martin Gerber and got really hot.
You realize that has happened to a lot of Cup Winning goalies? You also realize that Cam Ward is the only goalie in the last fifteen years that may not be "elite". You also realize he is only 24 years old and still has a lot of time to prove that he can be "elite"?
Philadelphia thought that way as well and threw Cechmanek under a bus one year and threw Hackett under the same bus the following year.
I think it is fair to say that Cechmanek's problems were more related to Cechmanek than any "bus" that he may have been under....the year he played for the Kings is the year they disassembled a pretty good team. The guy had 5 shutouts but I swear to god he flopped all over and gave up so many soft goals at the worst possible times.....if he faced 40 shots he played well. If he faced 20 shots he played like $%#*......
This is a common misconception that bugs me all the time.
It's easier to replace 2(G) roster spots than it is to replace 7(D) or 13(F)
Good thing you wouldn't be replacing 13(F) you'd be replacing 2(F). I don't think it is a misconception at all that it's harder to find elite level goaltending. The Kings haven't been able to do it since Rogie left.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay
That's why despite the old adage that you "build from the net out" you should build yourself a team and then go looking for your netminder. Unless you wind up drafting a Brodeur.
I'd say it's kind of short sighted to say you do this or that, period. You do what is best given the situation. I don't think Calgary regrets getting Kipursoff before their team was built. I think if you have an opportunity to acquire an elite goaltender, and the price is right, you do it no matter where you are in the building process. If Vancouver does retool their entire team, they at least know they're covered in net. The Kings on the other hand, have never had that luxury.
I'd say it's kind of short sighted to say you do this or that, period. You do what is best given the situation. I don't think Calgary regrets getting Kipursoff before their team was built. I think if you have an opportunity to acquire an elite goaltender, and the price is right, you do it no matter where you are in the building process. If Vancouver does retool their entire team, they at least know they're covered in net. The Kings on the other hand, have never had that luxury.
You're right. It's silly to make any kind of blanket statement about how to do anything.
However if you look throughout the history of the league you will see far more Stanley Cup winners that either developed their goalie or added a "proven" goalie to an already fantastic team.
It's unheard of for a team to grab an "elite" goalie and then build a Stanley Cup winning team "around" them.
I think it is fair to say that Cechmanek's problems were more related to Cechmanek than any "bus" that he may have been under....the year he played for the Kings is the year they disassembled a pretty good team. The guy had 5 shutouts but I swear to god he flopped all over and gave up so many soft goals at the worst possible times.....if he faced 40 shots he played well. If he faced 20 shots he played like $%#*......
go look at how many goals Roenick, Recchi, Primeau and Leclair got collectively during Roman's time in the playoffs.
Dominic Lavoie
