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About This Page: This is a discussion on LA Kings Talk within the LetsGoKings.com forums, at Los Angeles Kings Hockey Fan Forum. Originally Posted by KingBiscuit
The Kings are well on their way to entering the black hole . This is the worst thing that can happen. If they continue to win,
The Kings are well on their way to entering the black hole. This is the worst thing that can happen. If they continue to win, up till February 26th, the trade deadline, they may end up keeping Blake, et all and the end result will be:
I think posters throw the phrase "the black hole" around and really do not know what it means. The Kings right now are in a building process and are attempting to improve the team on a yearly basis. Being in "the black hole" does not mean picking 11 - 15 in the draft. It does mean picking 11 - 15 in the draft on a continual basis without improving the team. In fact one of the key components of this team was from picking in the 11th spot. A team can also be stuck in "the black hole" by picking 1-10 on a continual basis. The Kings were stuck in "the black hole" for most of its existence but with DL and his vision of building that trend will stop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBiscuit
The Kings will not get Stamkos; a player GUARANTEED to be a true top 6 center in the NHL. The Kings may keep Blake, Stuart, and not get 2 to 3 Key assets, be they #1 picks or young quality prospects the calibre of a Purcell or a young defenseman better than any King defenseman at Manchester.
The Kings will still be sellers at the deadline even if they are winning like this. This is the difference between "black hole" and not "black hole". DL knows that the team still needs some help to be serious cup contenders and will use the teams assets to get prospects or picks. As I have said before, there will always be a #1 pick in every draft. Should the Kings tank every season to get that pick? Detroit seems to be doing alright without picking in the top 20 for many years. As soon as DL builds up the reserves he will start using those prospects to get other players to fill the holes to make this team cup contenders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBiscuit
I would take a shot to the face by Ivanans, if it meant we could keep our #30 status. It is by far the best and realistic way that the Kings can get out of the black hole that they have been stuck in for more than a decade.
I want Stamkos at #1; not Cody Hodgson at #11. The difference is Steve Yzerman to Stephen Weiss.
.
In a system that lets players become UFA's as early as 25 years old this is not the best and most realistic way to get out of "the black hole". It is one way.
I think posters throw the phrase "the black hole" around and really do not know what it means. The Kings right now are in a building process and are attempting to improve the team on a yearly basis. Being in "the black hole" does not mean picking 11 - 15 in the draft. It does mean picking 11 - 15 in the draft on a continual basis without improving the team. In fact one of the key components of this team was from picking in the 11th spot. A team can also be stuck in "the black hole" by picking 1-10 on a continual basis. The Kings were stuck in "the black hole" for most of its existence but with DL and his vision of building that trend will stop.
The Kings will still be sellers at the deadline even if they are winning like this. This is the difference between "black hole" and not "black hole". DL knows that the team still needs some help to be serious cup contenders and will use the teams assets to get prospects or picks. As I have said before, there will always be a #1 pick in every draft. Should the Kings tank every season to get that pick? Detroit seems to be doing alright without picking in the top 20 for many years. As soon as DL builds up the reserves he will start using those prospects to get other players to fill the holes to make this team cup contenders.
In a system that lets players become UFA's as early as 25 years old this is not the best and most realistic way to get out of "the black hole". It is one way.
"
"The Kings will still be sellers at the deadline even if they are winning like this"
How can you be certain? If the Kings win 5 out of their next 6, (6 games before the deadline) they will be in the hunt and they may not be sellers.
I am not an advocate of tanking in any season, let alone every season. I am an advocate of tanking in a season, when in January, the Kings are in dead last and a player the calibre of Stamkos is available. This is akin to adding a player the calibre of Kopitar is just added to your team. The Stamkosians are not for throwing games, telling players to lay down and quit; it is just that we want to come in last, for the future, GUARANTEED, LONGTERM betterment of the team. The #1 or #2 overall pick is an asset that can land Stamkos or Doughty, or can be dealt for a huge return.
The kids still play, gain valuable experience and grow, even in losing. They even learn more by losing - that a price must be paid to get better and win.
" Detroit seems to be doing alright without picking in the top 20 for many years "
Yes, there is Detroit who drafted Datsyuk and Zetterberg in late rounds. Getting players like that in late rounds is about 500-1.
"In a system that lets players become UFA's as early as 25 years old this is not the best and most realistic way to get out of "the black hole". It is one way"
So if we end up with the #1, we should trade it down for a 2nd rounder and get a couple of NHL vets over 30, to balance out the team, because we're worried that Stamkos will be 25 years old in 7 years??
"As soon as DL builds up the reserves he will start using those prospects to get other players to fill the holes to make this team cup contenders."
reserve players don't make team Cup contenders. They build depth and players that can be called up from the minors and contribute.
And, for the record, I am not for tanking next season to get Tavares or Hedberg.
If the Kings are 30th overall on February 1st, then yes, I will be.
"
"The Kings will still be sellers at the deadline even if they are winning like this"
How can you be certain? If the Kings win 5 out of their next 6, (6 games before the deadline) they will be in the hunt and they may not be sellers.
Because the Kings have been playing their best hockey of the season with key players out of the lineup on injuries - Cammalleri, Blake, Nagy and Stuart (for one game against the BJ's).
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBiscuit
I am not an advocate of tanking in any season, let alone every season. I am an advocate of tanking in a season, when in January, the Kings are in dead last and a player the calibre of Stamkos is available. This is akin to adding a player the calibre of Kopitar is just added to your team. The Stamkosians are not for throwing games, telling players to lay down and quit; it is just that we want to come in last, for the future, GUARANTEED, LONGTERM betterment of the team. The #1 or #2 overall pick is an asset that can land Stamkos or Doughty, or can be dealt for a huge return.
To tank or not to tank? Your circular logic is not making any sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBiscuit
The kids still play, gain valuable experience and grow, even in losing. They even learn more by losing - that a price must be paid to get better and win.
They will learn this better by seeing the results of their hard work pay off. Winning breeds winners and losing will inevitably breed losers and those that do not want to play for losers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBiscuit
" Detroit seems to be doing alright without picking in the top 20 for many years "
Yes, there is Detroit who drafted Datsyuk and Zetterberg in late rounds. Getting players like that in late rounds is about 500-1.
So it can be done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBiscuit
"In a system that lets players become UFA's as early as 25 years old this is not the best and most realistic way to get out of "the black hole". It is one way"
So if we end up with the #1, we should trade it down for a 2nd rounder and get a couple of NHL vets over 30, to balance out the team, because we're worried that Stamkos will be 25 years old in 7 years??
When will the Kings end up with the #1. Not this year. I think that it has only happened once in the Kings 40 year existence (1967). That other part of your statement is about as absurd as your under lying argument about tanking for the purpose of getting that all valuable #1 pick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBiscuit
"As soon as DL builds up the reserves he will start using those prospects to get other players to fill the holes to make this team cup contenders."
reserve players don't make team Cup contenders. They build depth and players that can be called up from the minors and contribute.
Why can't prospects and future picks be traded for the "Stamkos'" of the league? That is one of the biggest reason why a team should build up its reserve lists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBiscuit
And, for the record, I am not for tanking next season to get Tavares or Hedberg.
If the Kings are 30th overall on February 1st, then yes, I will be.
Again circular contradiction. You are either for tanking or not for tanking.
Last edited by Len-Det64; February 12th, 2008 at 04:32 PM.
How can you be certain? If the Kings win 5 out of their next 6, (6 games before the deadline) they will be in the hunt and they may not be sellers.
Puhlease. Give it up. The Kings are NOT in the hunt. And even if by some miracle of miracles, they DID make it into the playoffs, they are not going to win. No way! You've been watching Major League too much. You don't go from worst to first in bottom third of the season.
All you guys who think that the Kings still have a shot at the playoffs need to lay off the acid. Besides, with almost the worst PK in the NHL, no way they make it past the first round, anyway.
You guys are like the kid who picks his scabs and winds up with a scar, because he won;t be patient, clean the wound out thoroughly, and let it heal. Let the Kings finish this year sucking it, and then go into next year with more of the pieces in place. Sending this team into the playoffs is like showing up to a gunfight with a knife.
KingBiscuit, if DL believes playoffs will be reached after 5 out of 6 let's say then I'm prepared to eat my shoe. He is not THAT stupid.
You know, that's one of the differences I like: No PANIC, but patience. If the team does it, great, but let's not trade our future away just to get merely a sniff at the playoffs. There's a 3-5 year plan, let him do the rebuild/restock/whatever properly without any out-of-course movement regarding trading philosophy.
This:
"Holy ****, we can actually make playoffs! What a ****ing miracle! Let's quickly trade Piskula and Boyle for Stillman!"
This my friend, is exactly the OPPOSITE to his plan, and therefore he won't do it.
And this:
"Holy ****, we can actually make playoffs! What a ****ing miracle! Let's not trade to-be UFAs for picks in a very deep draft because we MIGHT even make playoffs!"
I believe this is one of the last things to come to DL's mind.
Just forget about it. We will be sellers.
Last edited by MuPPeT666; February 12th, 2008 at 03:05 PM.
The Kings are well on their way to entering the black hole. This is the worst thing that can happen. If they continue to win, up till February 26th, the trade deadline, they may end up keeping Blake, et all and the end result will be:
The Kings will not get Stamkos; a player GUARANTEED to be a true top 6 center in the NHL.
The Kings may keep Blake, Stuart, and not get 2 to 3 Key assets, be they #1 picks or young quality prospects the calibre of a Purcell or a young defenseman better than any King defenseman at Manchester.
I would take a shot to the face by Ivanans, if it meant we could keep our #30 status.
It is by far the best and realistic way that the Kings can get out of the black hole that they have been stuck in for more than a decade.
I want Stamkos at #1; not Cody Hodgson at #11. The difference is Steve Yzerman to Stephen Weiss.
.
1) Nobody's GUARANTEED to be anything right off the bat. Alexandre Daigle was about as much of a can't miss prospect I've ever seen in 25 years of being a hockey fan, and turned into a flop. How long did it take Ed Jovanovski or Joe Thornton to develop into good players? With the new UFA rules, the Kings could conceivably draft Stamkos and lose him before he turned into an elite player.
2) Is the draft any less of a crapshoot now as it has always been? Look at the Red Wings -- their top drafted scorers are Zetterberg (210th overall), Datsyuk (171st), Lidstrom (53rd), Holmstrom (257th). Look at the top Kings. Kopitar, 11th overall. Frolov, 20th. Brown, 13th. Cammalleri, 49th. You mention Purcell as being a good prospect. Was he even drafted?
3) I can't believe that people like you would be willing to sacrifice another year of development for the young players already on this team. Even if the Kings miss the playoffs, winning games on the road like this is only going to help the confidence and growth of the players they have. I think it's pretty obvious that this team is nowhere near as bad as their record, and as long as there aren't any frantic/panic trades (a la the deals for Parrish, Ronning, Anson Carter, etc.) designed to squeak the team into an 8th seed, I have no problem with the team learning how to play together and winning games AS IT IS NOW.
4) If the Kings want to trade a veteran on the fringe, like Nagy or Thornton, and see what they can get, fine. But unless they get a #1 defenseman in return, trading Blake only serves to help another team -- and only gives the message that the young players on the team now don't matter much in the Kings' plans. All season long the Kings have been taking lumps learning to play and win together, and now that they look to have turned a corner, it doesn't make sense to just go and blow it all up again.
Len-Det64
