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About This Page: This is a discussion on LA Kings Talk within the LetsGoKings.com forums, at Los Angeles Kings Hockey Fan Forum. Originally Posted by M.F.Johnson
I loved all of Phil's wacky stories about the times that he, in hindsight, got ripped off in trade deals!!!!! Oh, that's right, he didn't tell
I loved all of Phil's wacky stories about the times that he, in hindsight, got ripped off in trade deals!!!!! Oh, that's right, he didn't tell any of those.
To provide something of interest to readers though, that transaction is why the Lightning technically have never won the draft lottery before.
Prior to last night, the lottery never produced a combination that was assigned to the Tampa Bay Lightning that meant they automatically moved up 4 spots or to the #1 pick without anyone else's help - thus "winning the lottery".
Did the lottery ever produce a combination that gave the Lightning the #1 overall pick? Yes. In 1998, the Lightning held the rights to swap 1st-round picks with the Sharks ... and no team is ever going to fail to exercise an option to go from 3 to 1 in the draft unless they're getting something in return. So, while Tampa didn't outright win the #1 pick on its own, they did in fact have a drawing that gave them the #1 pick at their option.
The first overall pick in 1998 was originally owned by Florida. They sent it to the Sharks:
> Sharks — Traded Viktor Kozlov, 1998 conditional fifth round pick (#117-Jaroslav Spacek) to Panthers for Dave Lowry, 1998 first round pick (#1-Vincent Lecavalier) on 11/13/97
Who sent it to the Lightning:
> Lightning — Traded Bryan Marchment, David Shaw, Lightning conditional right to swap 1998 first round picks (#2-David Legwand) to Sharks for Andrei Nazarov, Lightning conditional right to swap 1998 first round picks (#1-Vincent Lecavalier) on 3/24/98
They chose Lecavalier.
The 2nd overall pick was owned by the Lightning, who sent it to the Sharks:
> Sharks — Traded Andrei Nazarov, Lightning conditional right to swap 1998 first round picks (#1-Vincent Lecavalier) to Lightning for Bryan Marchment, David Shaw, Lightning conditional right to swap 1998 first round picks (#2-David Legwand) on 3/24/98
who sent it to the Preds:
> Predators — Traded 1998 first round pick (#3-Brad Stuart), 1998 second round pick (#29-Jonathan Cheechoo) to Sharks for 1998 first round pick (#2-David Legwand), 1998 third round pick (#85-Geoff Koch) on 6/27/98
They chose David Legwand and Geoff Koch with the picks they received.
The 3rd overall pick was owned by the Predators, who sent it to the Sharks:
> Sharks — Traded 1998 first round pick (#2-David Legwand), 1998 third round pick (#85-Geoff Koch) to Predators for 1998 first round pick (#3-Brad Stuart), 1998 second round pick (#29-Jonathan Cheechoo) on 6/27/98
The Sharks selected Brad Stuart and Cheechoo with the picks they received.
I don't think San Jose is hurting terribly as a result of that.
When Espo was the GM of the Lightning, he couldn't sign Bryan Marchment and Dean wanted him badly. Espo said "Okay, but if you get the 1st pick in the draft, it's ours".
Well, San Jose stunk, Tampa got San Jose's 1st pick, and Espo chose...
Vincent Lecavalier.
Nice going, Dean.
You forgot to mention the minor trade DL pulled off in that very draft.....#2(Legwand)for#3(Stuart who was highly touted at the time)#29(Rocket Richard winning Jonathan Cheechoo)I'd say Dean knows what he is doing.
Upon taking over the San Jose Sharks (in 1996), he was widely criticized for signing veterans. This move proved to be beneficial as Lombardi acquired veterans while stockpiling the team's farm system with homegrown talent. During his tenure as Sharks GM, he drafted Patrick Marleau, Brad Stuart, Scott Hannan, Marco Sturm and Marcel Goc in the first round along with Evgeni Nabokov, Jonathan Cheechoo, Vesa Toskala, Mark Smith, Ryane Clowe and Christian Ehrhoff in the later rounds.
He also traded for established veterans like Owen Nolan, Teemu Selänne, Adam Graves, Vincent Damphousse, Mike Ricci, Kyle McLaren, Mike Vernon, Todd Harvey, Bryan Marchment and Scott Thornton while developing their prospects slowly. All would become vital in the Sharks success in recent seasons. The team would increase their point totals for six straight seasons during his tenure
Quote:
Originally Posted by charles
Holy ****ing ****!
Umm.. thanks?
- T
Last edited by TonySCV; April 8th, 2008 at 07:39 PM.
Last in the league ... 2 years in a row. The UFA contracts won't be getting any better until he stops having to sign stop-gaps.
That's a cop-out for making a bad signing and offering a ridiculous contract to a player coming off knee surgery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonySCV
Upon taking over the San Jose Sharks (in 1996), he was widely criticized for signing veterans. This move proved to be beneficial as Lombardi acquired veterans while stockpiling the team's farm system with homegrown talent.He also traded for established veterans[/b] like Owen Nolan, Teemu Selänne, Adam Graves, Vincent Damphousse, Mike Ricci, Kyle McLaren, Mike Vernon, Todd Harvey, Bryan Marchment and Scott Thornton [b]while developing their prospects slowly.
Do you see a difference between that list of veterans and the veterans he's brought here? Nagy vs. Selanne? Thornton of years past vs. Thornton now? Graves vs. Willsie? Vernon vs. Cloutier? Maybe Lombardi blew his wad in San Jose, because he hasn't made one UFA signing with the Kings that compares to any of those in San Jose.
That's a cop-out for making a bad signing and offering a ridiculous contract to a player coming off knee surgery.
It's not a cop-out. It's you ignoring reality. We get the leftovers, which includes players coming off of knee surgery and players who have something to prove (Nagy, Calder). Warm bodies to fill skates that happen to have strong character traits and can be leaders for a room full of youth. Sure it'd be nice if the UFA's produced more, but if they don't, we get #2 overall instead of #8.
Quote:
Do you see a difference between that list of veterans and the veterans he's brought here? Nagy vs. Selanne? Thornton of years past vs. Thornton now? Graves vs. Willsie? Vernon vs. Cloutier? Maybe Lombardi blew his wad in San Jose, because he hasn't made one UFA signing with the Kings that compares to any of those in San Jose.
It didn't matter who San Jose signed for those first few years, and it doesn't matter to the Kings. Gimp knees, bitter goalies... being a crap team gets you the choice of UFA leftovers on the bargain shelf next to the restrooms at the Ralph's.
Look at San Jose's records during the rebuilding process they went through there with those FA's you mentioned... those dreadful win %'s, those point totals - the only thing that mattered about the UFA's they signed were the character traits they brought to the room. They were a dreadful team those first three years under DL, but they kept getting better, and now look at them - playoffs year after year after year. As bad as the Kings were this year, their win % increased over last year, and it'll continue. It just takes time.
- T
Last edited by TonySCV; April 8th, 2008 at 09:02 PM.
CBGB
