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About This Page: This is a discussion on Computers/Tech/Photo within the LetsGoKings.com forums, at Los Angeles Kings Hockey Fan Forum. Copyright holders were also scared of Xerox and VCRs.
They never learn and IMO slow down technological progress.
Broadband/Digital/Internet Age is a land of plenty. The business model still wants
Copyright holders were also scared of Xerox and VCRs.
They never learn and IMO slow down technological progress.
Broadband/Digital/Internet Age is a land of plenty. The business model still wants to control the market to make it a land of scarcity.
This is why I say they will eventually lose. But I bet they will survive and flourish once they embrace this new age with profitable business models. Not fight it with DRM schemes.
1. HDMI is both all digital and a copyright scheme. They could have taking out the copyright stuff and it would have been cheaper and probably faster to implement.
BS. While certainly a factor, HDMI 1.3a, for instance, doubles the bandwith of HDMI's initial standards. There are improvements being made in all sorts of aspects. As it stands, the only way to transmit a lossless DTS-HD MA signal, for instance, is over another cable - since coaxial and optical digital outputs cannot handle this bitrate.
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2. You don't have kids in your house.
I was unaware that by reproducing we were granted additional rights. If someone can't teach their kids to properly handle someting that is delicate in nature, I'm supposed to be worried about that?
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3. Fair use is fair use of copying things you own. A blender is a blender and that has nothing to do with copyright. Maybe patents but not copyright. Nonsensical argument.
Nonsensical in the fact that you STILL haven't given me one piece of what's "fair" about you getting to make an additional copy of something when it's clear that in any other aspect of the world, if you break it, you either go without or you buy another one.
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4. Copying is not the same as piracy. I own a whole bunch of DVDs and I have copied them for my own use. I have had to strip the copyright protection from these DVDs to do it. But this is something I wanted to do.
That's great in your little bubble. The face is, you don't end up stealing any revenue from studios. Good for you. The world, however, doesn't live in the same bubble, and as is very apparent, somebody other than you IS committing piracy. If people just lived by the law, all of this wouldn't even be an issue.
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5. Pirates have to make money too. They are not giving stuff for free. Somewhere along the line they charge for what they are doing to make their living.
Really?? Pirates have the right to make money off of the **** that they steal? Yes, the pirates that sell brand new in-theater movies for $3 charge. But I still think that is peanuts compared to file exchange programs like Bit Torrent, etc.
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6. HD and Audio Enthusiasts will not take junk for free. Look at you for instance. You happily buy your stuff for the quality.
And I also don't bitch and whine about the studios spending money to protect their property. And I get angry when I hear people suggesting that downloading/stealing crap is okay, because I know that as a paying customer, I end up paying MORE because of it.
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7. DVDs come with BS previews and FBI warnings that waste time. I just want to watch the damn movie already.
Movies at the movie theaters come with previews and "Turn off your cell phone" messages as well. I know you're probably in the face of the zit-covered ticket taker over this, but the fact is, if you want to live and play in the movie world, you better live and play by the movie rules.
Specifically on target, there isn't a Blu-ray movie that I own that doesn't allow me to press "skip" over these. OMG . . . four extra button presses!! That right there should be enough to allow me to copy a movie and "lend it" to my friend!
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I copyright this argument and will send you a cease and desist order if you quote it even in part.
Copyright holders were also scared of Xerox and VCRs.
They never learn and IMO slow down technological progress.
Broadband/Digital/Internet Age is a land of plenty. The business model still wants to control the market to make it a land of scarcity.
This is why I say they will eventually lose. But I bet they will survive and flourish once they embrace this new age with profitable business models. Not fight it with DRM schemes.
You need to understand, at least from the movie standpoint, that this really does become a final battle for them. Talk about VHS/BETA or DVD all you want, the one thing studios always had behind them was - those formats are inferior to the actual product.
That is narrowing now. HD Masters are the trophies for these studios. For many titles (especially those currently being filmed in the HD format), then will NOT get any better, meaning they are at the pinnacle. It's far riskier today for the studios to play around with their pure, raw, 100% perfect product that, if a mistake is made and it stumbles down the wrong path, it can legitmately be lost forever.
Down the road we'll see more advanced filming/displaying of movies, but we're not talking about what hasn't been made yet.
1. Yeah but that would have came out a few months back if they didn't have to worry about DRM.
2. Nothing to do with extra rights. Just using my fair use rights unlike you.
3. It doesn't matter what I do with it. I could store it for my grandkids or whatever. I own it. It is in my hands in my home. If they didn't want me to copy it then make it proprietary.
4. Yeah but the only people DRM is hurting is people like me who have to jump through hoops to get my rights.
5. Did I say they have the right? I said they are making money. That is it.
6. They are not just spending money. They are inconveniencing customers and not coping with the future.
7. Why should we live by their rules without any say? They need us as much as we need them.
but the vast majority of consumers don't seem to care about quality. It's all about convenience, portability and ease of use.
Sounds an awful lot like the film industry. Make a crap movie that requires no thinking and it's an automatic blockbuster. Unfortunately, people in this country are too lazy and stupid to go for quality.
__________________ I have to return some videotapes.
Sounds an awful lot like the film industry. Make a crap movie that requires no thinking and it's an automatic blockbuster. Unfortunately, people in this country are too lazy and stupid to go for quality.
dgrycan touched on this recently. Some folks think that just because they have an HDTV, an upconverting DVD player, and a DVD, that they're watching their SD programming in HD. Like the same copy of The Matrix they've had since 2000 all of sudden has the magical ability to transform a 480p signal to 1080i, and actually LOOK BETTER. It's a load of crap.
Consumers are, for the most part, ignorant. There really isn't any real education out there on the new formats that is readily available without some actual searching involved. They think that $4000 HDTV at Best Buy pumping their bull**** programming is actually high definition is one of the problems.
As far as either/or both formats remaining as a niche product, I don't think it'll go that route. The first Blu-ray title to reach 100,000 units sold did it in weeks and not months like it took DVD's Air Force One to reach that same sales mark. Niche? Naw. BR is doing what SD-DVD did 10 years ago, but they're doing it at a quicker pace. When the players come down to the prices that DVD players were at back in 1998 ($300-400 range) by year's end, I think things will continue to climb just as they did 9 years ago.
It could have easily been HD-DVD that was outselling BR titles, but they didn't have the studio support the BR camp has.
And downloads? I'll pass. There is something to be said about having something tangible in your hand.
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Originally Posted by dgrycan
Specifically on target, there isn't a Blu-ray movie that I own that doesn't allow me to press "skip" over these. OMG . . . four extra button presses!!
Seriously. The first couple of BR titles I bought allowed me to skip that crap, I thought "maybe it's just these titles." The more titles I bought, I realized this was across the board. It gives me one more reason to love the format. (HD-DVD movies do the same thing, so I'm not being biased. )
Last edited by Unfiltered; May 10th, 2007 at 06:48 PM.
I think people tend to have a bit of misconception when it comes to copyrighted material. You don't OWN that movie you paid money to take home. You have purchased a license to watch it. The way dgrycan defends movies is the same way I defend computer software. You DO NOT OWN that copy of Windows running on your computer right now. You have purchased THE RIGHT to use that ONE COPY on ONE COMPUTER.
But I can see how its hard for people that don't create these products to have a hard time grasping this concept. It took learning to program software - and seeing all the hours and hours of hard work that goes into it - for me to change my point of view on the subject.
And I DO think copy protection can be very inconvenient at times, to be quite honest with you. But I fully understand why it needs to be there. Most people are honest, but we would NEVER walk out of our businesses at night leaving the doors wide open. Yet, essentially people against copy protection are asking these companies to do just that!
__________________ LA Kings Hockey - Disappointing Kings fans since 1967!
I think people tend to have a bit of misconception when it comes to copyrighted material. You don't OWN that movie you paid money to take home. You have purchased a license to watch it. The way dgrycan defends movies is the same way I defend computer software. You DO NOT OWN that copy of Windows running on your computer right now. You have purchased THE RIGHT to use that ONE COPY on ONE COMPUTER.
But I can see how its hard for people that don't create these products to have a hard time grasping this concept. It took learning to program software - and seeing all the hours and hours of hard work that goes into it - for me to change my point of view on the subject.
And I DO think copy protection can be very inconvenient at times, to be quite honest with you. But I fully understand why it needs to be there. Most people are honest, but we would NEVER walk out of our businesses at night leaving the doors wide open. Yet, essentially people against copy protection are asking these companies to do just that!
What he said.
I have always been a big advocate for copyright protection. I agree that there are times that copy protection can get in the way.
Example: I work at NBC and we have a blanket license with all of the record companies to use their music for on-air stories. Every week, the music librarian receives all new releases from said record companies. They ingest them and the music is made available via a server.
Because the previously received CDs need to be ripped, the entire catalog has not been added to the server. (This is an ongoing process.) So, from time to time, we need to go out and buy a CD. But at 1am, nothing is open, so it's on to iTunes. We need to burn an audio CD, sometimes for just one song, because the DRM-equipped file is not importable into the Avids we use. Kind of silly honestly.
But, currently, that is the world we live in, and I fully agree with the need for the studios to feel protected. They have (enter title here on which ever HD format you choose) mildly compressed from the ultimate HD master. It's their money. Their risk. Rent it if you want to see the movie but don't want to buy it with those limitations.
Last edited by Unfiltered; May 11th, 2007 at 12:09 AM.
Sorry guys you are working for old media living off old business models. Get with the times.
We are only in the beginning. The digital time of plenty has started and the fake business of scarcity will be obsolete.
And as long as that "old media" is creating the products that are consumed, the "fake business of scarcity" as you put it, will continue.
"Get with the times." Man, you have no idea who I am and what I do for a living. As if I don't work everyday with the very ideals you are holding so close to your chest . That's what makes that comment so funny.
Sorry guys you are working for old media living off old business models. Get with the times.
We are only in the beginning. The digital time of plenty has started and the fake business of scarcity will be obsolete.
Before lecturing people who are worried about protecting their digital property, you might want to think about attending a seminar on how to properly care for media in the digital age. Because if "my kids damage it" is the ONLY actual fair use method you can come up with, it's pretty damned petty.
Before, I said old media will be fine if they embrace the new age. Their business models will change however.
Unfliltered - you say you are holding my ideals to heart yet you laugh at what I am saying.
Dgrycan - what I do with it is my products are my concern. Not yours. If I want to exercise my rights then who are you to tell me I can't.
Kids are growing up with broadband and computers. The fake business of scarcity will be run over. DRM doesn't work and just keeps honest people at bay.
About Bluray vs HD-DVD - still way too early to call it either way or to say either won't even be a niche market like LD for video and audio enthusiasts.
Prices are still too high and the selection is too low.
Before, I said old media will be fine if they embrace the new age. Their business models will change however.
Unfliltered - you say you are holding my ideals to heart yet you laugh at what I am saying.
Dgrycan - what I do with it is my products are my concern. Not yours. If I want to exercise my rights then who are you to tell me I can't.
Kids are growing up with broadband and computers. The fake business of scarcity will be run over. DRM doesn't work and just keeps honest people at bay.
About Bluray vs HD-DVD - still way too early to call it either way or to say either won't even be a niche market like LD for video and audio enthusiasts.
Prices are still too high and the selection is too low.
Unfiltered was saying that you hold it close to your heart not his.
Also, downloading movies is just as much of a niche as you say HD-DVD and Blu-ray are. Not everybody does it and if that's all we wanted to do when it came to watching movies, the internet would need to be a lot faster than it is and people would have to upgrade. As it is right now, it takes forever to download a movie (with DSL, let alone dial-up), not everyone has the space (audio takes up a lot less space than video, let alone 2 hours of an HD signal), the quality isn't nearly as good (even though some don't care about that), there would be a ton of restrictions if it went mainstream, etc.
Edit: Forgot to mention that the companies putting their movies online would need a ton of space as well if they wanted to put their entire catalog online. This isn't going to happen anytime soon.
__________________ I have to return some videotapes.
Last edited by NastiMarvasti; May 11th, 2007 at 12:04 PM.
NastiMarvasti
