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About This Page: This is a discussion on Politics within the LetsGoKings.com forums, at Los Angeles Kings Hockey Fan Forum. abortion is not a simple issue. Only simple people would consider it so.
Ahh, people getting sucked in to the wedge issue game in an elcetion year. Didn't see that coming. Seriously, I wish we would get away from the God, Guns and Gays issues every goddam election. The Democrats play right into the Republicans' hands. I'm not for abortion on demand, but women should have dominion over their own bodies. Abortions should be safe, legal and rare. Some of these religious fanatics make it sound like there are doctors roaming the streets with abortion kits looking for random pregnant women and convincing or coercing them to their pregnancies. I understand their passion and the sensitivity of the issue, but it's one issue! IMHO, abortion shouldn't even be in the top 10 or 15 issues that need to be addressed.
__________________ Sole member of the Mark Visheau fan club.
I see, it's not a political or moral issue when doctors are performing partial birth abortions when the child is killed outside the mother's womb. Check.
I don't give a f*** about a flag pin. I do care about whether or not our society condones infanticide.
Abortion isn't my main issue, but how about a little honesty on this point from Obama. I'm sure that he has an opinion, he just doesn't want to share it.
My advice to you is to go back and think about when you would have liked to be granted the basic human right of continuing to live.
It's not a political or moral issue even in a case where there is a severely deformed fetus that won't live anyway?
It's not a political or moral issue even in a case where there is a severely deformed fetus that won't live anyway?
The specific issue is late term abortions where the baby can survive outside the womb, or has survived the procedure and is actually born.
I'm not trying to dredge up all the different issues associated with abortion. My issue is with Obama and him being evasive on this issue. You can't tell me that a politician running for President doesn't have a position or even a personal belief in this area. For some reason he simply doesn't want to share it with us in that forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddogg420
abortion is not a simple issue. Only simple people would consider it so.
It's a simple question. Obama can make the answer as complicated as he wants. He didn't provide any answer at all.
__________________ Hockey's original bad boy. The "Cowboy" Howie Young
You can't tell me that a politician running for President doesn't have a position or even a personal belief in this area.
Until some people in this country grasp the concept that the two are NOT mutually exclusive, I don't think there's anything he could have said that could appease that segment of the country.
Until some people in this country grasp the concept that the two are NOT mutually exclusive, I don't think there's anything he could have said that could appease that segment of the country.
Which, of course, is exactly why he was asked that question...
Until some people in this country grasp the concept that the two are NOT mutually exclusive, I don't think there's anything he could have said that could appease that segment of the country.
I think people can understand that. Let the people make up their minds with whatever information he wants to provide.
He can't trust the voters, so he won't answer the question? Lame.
__________________ Hockey's original bad boy. The "Cowboy" Howie Young
If we're going to bash Obama, let's at least do it for the right reason - and that's addressing and legitimizing these superchurch zealots to begin with. We need to squeeze then OUT of the political process, not invite them in after they've already stuck their foot in the door.
The simple question the candidates were asked can be refracted back to the voters?
1. Why is abortion wrong? List all assumptions and reasons why these assumptions are valid.
2. How much should it cost to be an American? How much should you have to pay in taxes to live as an American, with all the opportunities, benefits, security, etc... luck has rewarded you with?
-_Sf
Last edited by seraphim; August 18th, 2008 at 04:33 PM.
One of my favorite comments by H. L. Mencken is "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
That's the mindset you K17, and most other extreme right wingers (as well as religious fanatics of many sorts) live with and indulge in. You don't like the complexity and doubt that characterize the social and natural worlds. Instead of reaching the logical conclusion based on the mass of constantly building evidence--that the world and human events are messy and we'll just have to keep slogging along doing our thoughtful best to understand and respond to human problems--you want simple answers without nuance that give you a feeling of certainty and security.
__________________
"For if once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." Thomas DeQuincey, 1700's
One of my favorite comments by H. L. Mencken is "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
That's the mindset you K17, and most other extreme right wingers (as well as religious fanatics of many sorts) live with and indulge in. You don't like the complexity and doubt that characterize the social and natural worlds. Instead of reaching the logical conclusion based on the mass of constantly building evidence--that the world and human events are messy and we'll just have to keep slogging along doing our thoughtful best to understand and respond to human problems--you want simple answers without nuance that give you a feeling of certainty and security.
...and Leo you continue to live in the world of nuance where there is no right or wrong, but only moral equivalency. That's what allows you to live with yourself and makes you happy.
__________________ Hockey's original bad boy. The "Cowboy" Howie Young
...and Leo you continue to live in the world of nuance where there is no right or wrong, but only moral equivalency. That's what allows you to live with yourself and makes you happy.
I do live in a world of nuance, but I'm not a moral relativist (in the simple sense of the term) and I'm not a moral subjectivist (in the simple sense of that term). Sorry if I violate some simple formula you have for categorizing me.
...and Leo you continue to live in the world of nuance where there is no right or wrong, but only moral equivalency. That's what allows you to live with yourself and makes you happy.
And I would argue that you continue to live in a world of intellectual laziness. I’m sick of hearing the right claim to be the party of morality and Jesus because they’re against abortion (and gays). They use the abortion issue as the trump card that proves their moral superiority. Meanwhile, the same evangelical preachers who rail against abortion evoke the fire and brimstone of the Old Testament to support their acceptance of war.
...and Leo you continue to live in the world of nuance where there is no right or wrong, but only moral equivalency. That's what allows you to live with yourself and makes you happy.
This makes no sense and comes across as defensive and devoid of rational thought. Because some people understand that the world is not black and white, does not mean that those people believe that there is no right and wrong. Answers to most questions are more complex than we think.
EDIT: And seriously... people who are against gay marriage need to grow up and put on some big boy pants. Get over it, and mind your own business.
I dunno, but my 2 cents on this issue is why not take away some of these privledges that married people get? If the benefits are the issue, why should anyone get them then?
__________________ The point in history at which we stand is full of promise and danger. The world will either move forward toward unity and widely shared prosperity - or it will move apart.
And I would argue that you continue to live in a world of intellectual laziness. I’m sick of hearing the right claim to be the party of morality and Jesus because they’re against abortion (and gays). They use the abortion issue as the trump card that proves their moral superiority. Meanwhile, the same evangelical preachers who rail against abortion evoke the fire and brimstone of the Old Testament to support their acceptance of war.
I would argue what you call laziness, is what I call intellectual honesty. Not every position requires nuance.
I'm sick of people that after 47 years on this earth pretend to not have an opinion on when a child gets human rights. What does Obama think (in fact does he think), we'll never know because he won't tell us.
Yea, I guess it is above his pay grade. The President makes more than a senator.
The gay marriage thing - I don't give a rat's ass about. I simply don't like it being decided in the courts.
__________________ Hockey's original bad boy. The "Cowboy" Howie Young
JJ289
