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About This Page: This is a discussion on Politics within the LetsGoKings.com forums, at Los Angeles Kings Hockey Fan Forum. Obama's minister no longer is involved with his campaign.
Controversial minister off Obama's campaign - CNN.com
Obama is in a tough spot on this one. He can't make his condemnation
Obama is in a tough spot on this one. He can't make his condemnation of his minister's remarks too strong or he risks alienating his base, but he can't hide from the fact that he sat in this guy's church listening to these sermons off and on for 20 years.
I also like how Obama is now trying to say something along the lines of the practioners of divisive politics are now going to start attacking him over this. Dude, wake up you're minister is a practioner of divisive politics, and you did nothing to distance yourself from him until the media (that has pretty much given you a free ride) called you on it.
__________________ Hockey's original bad boy. The "Cowboy" Howie Young
...and this has what to do with how he'd run the country?
It has a lot to do with it. Does he believe as his minister states on many subjects that America is a fundmentally corrupt country, and got what it had coming on 9/11, or does he truly believe what he is saying now in condemning the remarks?
If he believes what he is saying now, why didn't he disassociate himself and his campaign from his minister long ago?
__________________ Hockey's original bad boy. The "Cowboy" Howie Young
How is this different from everything the far-right Evangelicals (Falwell, et al.) say about gays and liberals causing 9/11? And is this really different from McCain seeking out John Hagee's endorsement?
I guess when trying to paint the guy as a Muslim fails, they've got to turn him into a Black Panther.
I really wish Obama would have said hes my friend and to hell with you guys. The minister said these thing not Obama Why is Obama being held responsible for what his friend said?
Politics Suck
How is this different from everything the far-right Evangelicals (Falwell, et al.) say about gays and liberals causing 9/11? And is this really different from McCain seeking out John Hagee's endorsement?
I guess when trying to paint the guy as a Muslim fails, they've got to turn him into a Black Panther.
It's different because McCain is pandering to the same evangelicals that he denounced in 2000. That makes him a political hypocrite for sure, but he sure isn't a true believer in anything that Hagee says.
Also, he was never a long standing member of Hagee's congregation. See the difference now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuxBeingU
I really wish Obama would have said hes my friend and to hell with you guys. The minister said these thing not Obama Why is Obama being held responsible for what his friend said? Politics Suck
Because you don't sit there and listen to that kind of crap for that long unless you actually believe it on some level.
__________________ Hockey's original bad boy. The "Cowboy" Howie Young
Last edited by KINGS17; March 16th, 2008 at 01:30 PM.
It's different because McCain is pandering to the same evangelicals that he denounced in 2000. That makes him a political hypocrite for sure, but he sure isn't a true believer in anything that Hagee says.
So because Obama belonged to his church, he's a true believer in what Wright says? Come on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17
Also, he was never a long standing member of Hagee's congregation. See the difference now?
Not much of one. If anything, I look at Hagee as worse because McCain actively sought his endorsement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17
Because you don't sit there and listen to that kind of crap for that long unless you acually believe it on some level.
That's just BS. Black churches have always been heavily political. Obama's repudiated the comments.
If anything, I'm far more curious how McCain became a Baptist in the last decade after being a life-long Episcopalian.
So because Obama belonged to his church, he's a true believer in what Wright says? Come on.
Not much of one. If anything, I look at Hagee as worse because McCain actively sought his endorsement.
That's just BS. Black churches have always been heavily political. Obama's repudiated the comments.
If anything, I'm far more curious how McCain became a Baptist in the last decade after being a life-long Episcopalian.
I guess we just have to agree to disagree, because McCain sought out Hagee's endorsement for political reasons only. I am not a big fan of him doing that, but I have no problem believing that McCain thinks Hagee is full of crap. How does Obama really feel about what Wright says?
__________________ Hockey's original bad boy. The "Cowboy" Howie Young
Reverend Wright said a lot more stuff that pisses off 'patriots' and 'conservatives' and 'just average Americans' than is in the CNN article. I'm sure it will all be repeated again and again and played over and over on CNN, Fox and the rest of the 24 hour cable outfits.
Obama rejected, in no uncertain terms, the points of view that Wright presented in the comments being given play by Cooper, Hannity and others. I watched Anderson Cooper's show on Friday night and Obama did just that. What else is there to say? All I learned from this story is that Obama rejected some opinions that I generally agree with. Am I going to vote against Obama now because he's not as willing as I am to connect some of America's plight in the world to its history of racism and imperialism? It also bothers me that it's considered outrageous by many people in this country to acknowledge the simple fact that the nation is fundamentally controlled and run by a rich (mostly) white upper class that governs in its class interests.
Obama states repeatedly that he's for lessening racial and political divisions in the country. The same people who let themselves believe that George Bush was telling the truth when he presented himself as a "uniter, not a divider" are giving less credence to Obama's remarks even though there is objectively more reason to believe Obama. What's the disconnect here? Could it be that because Obama is not white skinned that his race is made an issue by political commentators and right-wing political operatives? Is Bush's or McCain's race and their connections to the white upper class of the United States an issue? No. And the reason for this is that whiteness is not seen as an automatic disqualifier by the vast majority of all voters in the US, while racial, and even gender differences, are seen as a characteristics that, in and of themselves, still qualify as worrisome traits that need to be discussed and considered by millions of white voters even though Obama himself has given no cause for this to be an issue. Why then is it an issue? Because racial fear and racist feelings are huge motivators for millions of white Americans.
Did anyone on this board NOT think that the race of Obama would be introduced into this campaign, by Clinton, the Republicans and the news media? Does anyone really honestly think that racial fears won't be exploited by Obama's opponents to try to defeat him? It's one thing to hope that Americans won't let this election be decided by appeals to racism, it's another thing altogether to imagine that racism won't be appealed to.
The claim will be made that this isn't about race, it's about his minister's opinions. If it's about his minister's opinions, then Obama's disclaimers should be enough to put it to bed. But it won't be put to bed because this is about BLACK Barak Obama's BLACK minister's opinions. If Obama had been going to a church led by a white minister who had said the same things as Wright then Obama's rejection would end it. As it is, if any well known black figure in this country says anything that doesn't pass the unquestioningly nationalistic/patriotic sniff test of the Right wing, then someone will ask Obama to comment on the remark and it will once again be manufactured into an 'issue.'
__________________
"For if once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." Thomas DeQuincey, 1700's
Last edited by Leonidas; March 17th, 2008 at 12:14 PM.
How is this different from everything the far-right Evangelicals (Falwell, et al.) say about gays and liberals causing 9/11?
It's possibly much different. I have NOT read the minister's statements so I'm going on what I read here. If he is actually saying the US got attacked because of some of our policies over the years throughout the world then I would argue that that is FAR more accurate than "gays and liberals" causing 9/11 (the latter being God's retribution on the country since God is obviously a conservative).
However, the minister's claim we "deserved" it is non-sense and I think Obama has already made his feeling known on this....as has McCain in his situation.
jom
__________________ Old men's room wall saying: Flush hard, it's a long way to Washington
So because Obama belonged to his church, he's a true believer in what Wright says? Come on.
How many people attend churches led by people they don't agree with? Obamas known this guy for years-he married him and his wife and baptized his kids. Are we supposed to believe Wrights comments and views are something new to Obama?
I could care less quite frankly since Im not voting for any mainstream candidate but I think its fair game and reasonable to question his relationship with his seld admitted spiritual leader.
__________________ "The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools."
How many people attend churches led by people they don't agree with? Obama's known this guy for years-he married him and his wife and baptized his kids. Are we supposed to believe Wright's comments and views are something new to Obama?
I could care less quite frankly since I'm not voting for any mainstream candidate but I think its fair game and reasonable to question his relationship with his self-admitted spiritual leader.
Of course it's fair game to question his relationship, and he's already denounced Wright's specific comments and said he disagrees. Those who are already not voting for the guy are the only ones getting up-in-arms over something so trivial. Church leaders on the right side have said far worse things.
I'm quite honestly not all that worried about religion being a factor with either major candidate. It seems like a pretty obvious attempt to turn Obama into a hardcore black radical now that the Muslim smear job has fallen flat. Yawn.
Falsehood:
"But Ronald Kessler, a journalist who has written about Wright’s ministry, claims that Obama was in fact in the pews at Trinity last July 22. That’s when Wright blamed the 'arrogance' of the 'United States of White America' for much of the world’s suffering, especially the oppression of blacks."
Retraction:
"In this column, I cite a report that Sen. Obama had attended services at Trinity Church on July 22, 2007. The Obama camapaign [sic] has provided information showing that Sen. Obama did not attend Trinity that day. I regret the error."
You would think he would know better than to cite Newsmax, but I guess not.
Last edited by Joe Hoya; March 17th, 2008 at 10:05 AM.
KINGS17
Obama's Minister 
