You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
Go to Page...
Thank you for crosschecking our sponsors!
About This Page: This is a discussion on Politics within the LetsGoKings.com forums, at Los Angeles Kings Hockey Fan Forum. High Gas prices makes the words "Hope" and "Change" seem even more promising. Keeping gas prices high drives up the price of everything which then makes the allure of a
High Gas prices makes the words "Hope" and "Change" seem even more promising. Keeping gas prices high drives up the price of everything which then makes the allure of a new party in the Oval Office all the more enticing. Its like the world of advertising in which the goals are to create a problem or the perception of a problem and then offer a solution. The Higher the price of gas the greater the probability that Obama will win the election.
__________________ "The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools."
Trust me honey, the gas prices and everything else wrong with the country is not a "perception" and it ain't going away any time soon. We've got real problems, Obama doesn't need to create any.
Are you seriously blaming high gas prices on Obama?! You're on something right? Tell me you are...(hint, gas prices are high everywhere in the world, not just in the united states)
Gas prices may get lower just in time for the November election (oil companies know who their guy is) but the trend is irreversable over the long term. There are a lot more customers now then there used to be.
Short answer is this. When we began to open up trade with China there began a slow steady increase in incomes in China. Gasoline and cars are both cheap over there and the huge population is buying car and gas in record amounts. Combined with the growth of India's population there is a tremendous spike now in oil consumption world wide. When demand increases so does price. There is some speculation but that is not the real problem. China is starting to have a middle class and that means we have to pay more at the pump from now on.
The increase in oil prices is not good and Obama does not want it anymore than McCain wants another terrorist attack before the election. After the energy crisis of the 1970's the government encouraged people to buy SUV's because of american dominance of that market. Rather than encourage conservation and alternative transportation the government encouraged greater consumption. Now we are in a bit of a predicament.
We can all argue about oil, how much is left and how much we should drill versus import but the bottom line is we need to start putting more vehicles on the market that use less oil.
__________________ "I told them that I'm a punishing defenseman, a player that forwards don't like to play against.''
Colten Teubert, when asked by Kings amateur scouts about his style at the NHL Combine...
Trust me honey, the gas prices and everything else wrong with the country is not a "perception" and it ain't going away any time soon. We've got real problems, Obama doesn't need to create any.
I didn't say Obama created the gas prices-I said that Dems have no inherent interest in solving the gas crisis.
Dominic Lavoie- There are a lot more customers now then there used to be.
Dominic hits the nail on the head. There are a lot of factors at work but nothing trumps the law of supply and demand. Greater Demand from China and India is the main reason. Case in Point-Diesel fuel was traditionally always cheaper the regular fuel. China and India have more vehicles that run on diesel vs the US-now the cost of Diesel is much higher then regular fuel. Thats not a conspiracy theory-its a basic law of economins.
My real point is-if one can assume that Bush is going to "create" an incident to try and garner an election victory-why would you assume the same isnt true for the other side? If an ailing economy bodes well for the party of hope and change-what reason would they have to try and improve it? Ive said it before and Ill say it again-if field polls said that killing puppies and kitties would win an election politicians from both sides would be lining up at Petsmart in droves.
__________________ "The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools."
I didn't say Obama created the gas prices-I said that Dems have no inherent interest in solving the gas crisis.
Dominic Lavoie- There are a lot more customers now then there used to be.
Dominic hits the nail on the head. There are a lot of factors at work but nothing trumps the law of supply and demand. Greater Demand from China and India is the main reason. Case in Point-Diesel fuel was traditionally always cheaper the regular fuel. China and India have more vehicles that run on diesel vs the US-now the cost of Diesel is much higher then regular fuel. Thats not a conspiracy theory-its a basic law of economins.
My real point is-if one can assume that Bush is going to "create" an incident to try and garner an election victory-why would you assume the same isnt true for the other side? If an ailing economy bodes well for the party of hope and change-what reason would they have to try and improve it? Ive said it before and Ill say it again-if field polls said that killing puppies and kitties would win an election politicians from both sides would be lining up at Petsmart in droves.
And all I said was that he didn't NEED to create an incident - the Republicans have done more than enough.
And you are correct - there are tons more customers than there used to be. BUT, if you think that the Arabs aren't sitting on a ton of oil, you're crazy. They're pumping just what they need to to keep control.
I'm finally hearing about the tar sands projects in Canada again. We were slated to work on those projects in the 1980's and everything got shelved. There's oil in a whole bunch of areas, but if the oil companies can't make the money they want, they don't even look at the project.
Enron should be a good example of all that. They drove the price of power up so high and the demand was so great that there were power plants going in all over California. When Engron got caught and the price suddenly went down, the power speculators shut down projects in mid-stream and walked away from them. They're finally starting to get back on track.
The American oil companies could be investing the billions they're making in trying to find alternative fuels, increasing production in the US, etc. They're not doing much except lining their pockets. There are a few projects going on in the US right now, but the majority of the work is going on in the middle east.
You all can talk supply and demand all you want. I don't disagree, but I do think that there is a lot of manipulation going on to keep the supply down and the demand up. Someone here mentioned the "gas shortage" of the 1970's. Do you also remember they were caught dumping full tankers into the desert and then claiming a shortage?
Ive said it before and Ill say it again-if field polls said that killing puppies and kitties would win an election politicians from both sides would be lining up at Petsmart in droves.
I say they should start at the humane societies and get rid of the overpopulation problem first.
__________________
Vote For Team Sexy
Quote:
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." Vince Lombardi
Do you also remember they were caught dumping full tankers into the desert and then claiming a shortage?
I dont remember this at all but it makes absolutely no sense-if Im in the gold business; I dont go and throw out 1/2 of my gold to make an artifical shortage. If Oil is selling for 100 bucks a barrel-it makes no sense to expunge 1/2 of my supply for no profit. Thats about as illogical and irrational as it gets.
__________________ "The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools."
Last edited by Hipcheck; June 25th, 2008 at 09:06 AM.
Dominic hits the nail on the head. There are a lot of factors at work but nothing trumps the law of supply and demand. Greater Demand from China and India is the main reason. Case in Point-Diesel fuel was traditionally always cheaper the regular fuel. China and India have more vehicles that run on diesel vs the US-now the cost of Diesel is much higher then regular fuel. Thats not a conspiracy theory-its a basic law of economins.
.
I dont remember this at all but it makes absolutely no sense-if Im in the gold business; I dont go and throw out 1/2 of my gold to make an artifical shortage. If Oil is selling for 100 bucks a barrel-it makes no sense to expunge 1/2 of my supply for no profit. Thats about as illogical and irrational as it gets.
Well, it happened. And they were getting it at the pump believe me. There were lines around the block and people were fighting over their place in line. We spent hours in line. We could get gas on only alternate days depending on if your license plate was odd or even unless you used your car for business such as outside sales. Gas stations were closed due to no gas. They created a real frenzy, so a few tankers didn't cost them that much.
And all I said was that he didn't NEED to create an incident - the Republicans have done more than enough.?
There is more than enough blame to go around on this issue. Does either party have a coherent plan that gets us where we need to go in the long term with the appropriate "bridge" to get us there? NO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fansince67
And you are correct - there are tons more customers than there used to be. BUT, if you think that the Arabs aren't sitting on a ton of oil, you're crazy. They're pumping just what they need to to keep control.
I'm finally hearing about the tar sands projects in Canada again. We were slated to work on those projects in the 1980's and everything got shelved. There's oil in a whole bunch of areas, but if the oil companies can't make the money they want, they don't even look at the project.
Enron should be a good example of all that. They drove the price of power up so high and the demand was so great that there were power plants going in all over California. When Engron got caught and the price suddenly went down, the power speculators shut down projects in mid-stream and walked away from them. They're finally starting to get back on track.?
The subsidies provided by the Chinese and Indian governments to their citizens to buy gasoline also inflates the demand.
No one really knows how much oil the Arabs are sitting on, but we really can't count on them now can we? The best solution short term is to continue efforts that will conserve fuel, like hybrids, smaller cars, etc. and exploring off our own coast and ANWR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fansince67
The American oil companies could be investing the billions they're making in trying to find alternative fuels, increasing production in the US, etc. They're not doing much except lining their pockets. There are a few projects going on in the US right now, but the majority of the work is going on in the middle east.
You can't expect the oil companies to invest their profits in alternative energy technology. That's not what they do. Now if you want to talk about taking away their tax breaks and forcing them to either explore on the land that the government has given them sweetheart leases on within a specified amount of time or risk losing the lease, I am all ears.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fansince67
You all can talk supply and demand all you want. I don't disagree, but I do think that there is a lot of manipulation going on to keep the supply down and the demand up. Someone here mentioned the "gas shortage" of the 1970's. Do you also remember they were caught dumping full tankers into the desert and then claiming a shortage?
There is definitely a great deal of manipulation going on. I would love to see the U.S. dump about half of it's strategic reserve on the open market while at the same time announcing plans to drill off the coast of Florida and California just to see the speculators get burned big time.
__________________ Hockey's original bad boy. The "Cowboy" Howie Young
My real point is-if one can assume that Bush is going to "create" an incident to try and garner an election victory-why would you assume the same isnt true for the other side?
The difference is that there is evidence for the former and not for the latter. We have people on the record saying that an attack against Iran is imminent and is part of the White House discussion right now. We have John McCain's chief strategist saying that an attack on the US would benefit McCain's campaign.
Do you have any evidence that Democrats or Obama are deliberately trying to keep gas prices high? No, you don't, because there is none. You've said yourself in this thread that the supply and demand for a global commodity is the primary reason for high gas prices. It's easy to speculate about what could happen and fall back on the red herring of cheap cynicism: "both sides are bad." But valid arguments require evidence.
No one really knows how much oil the Arabs are sitting on, but we really can't count on them now can we? The best solution short term is to continue efforts that will conserve fuel, like hybrids, smaller cars, etc. and exploring off our own coast and ANWR.
You can't expect the oil companies to invest their profits in alternative energy technology. That's not what they do. Now if you want to talk about taking away their tax breaks and forcing them to either explore on the land that the government has given them sweetheart leases on within a specified amount of time or risk losing the lease, I am all ears.
There is definitely a great deal of manipulation going on. I would love to see the U.S. dump about half of it's strategic reserve on the open market while at the same time announcing plans to drill off the coast of Florida and California just to see the speculators get burned big time.
Actually, while I can't give bbl figures I can tell you that there is ALOT of oil under the middle east. The company I work for builds refineries and power plants and we work with them all the time.
And why would it not be smart for the oil companies to invest in alternate technologies if the oil demand will dry up someday? Why would you stay in a business that will eventually dry up? I can tell you part of the reason is corporate mentality these days is that the current management team lines their pockets as much as they can before they get the boot. As long as the company is making money, they keep lining their pockets. Once the ride is over, oh well, I've got my millions.
The company I work for has already diversified, back in the 1980's. We used to handle only refineries, we are now into Power Generation, Telecommunications, Industrial, Water Desalination (too expensive, no return; getting the drift?), among other things. We figured out
Obama hopes for high gas prices; dems will make it happen 
fansince67
