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About This Page: This is a discussion on Politics within the LetsGoKings.com forums, at Los Angeles Kings Hockey Fan Forum. Originally Posted by job
And the car companies, and the aerospace companies, and the tire companies, and the plastics companies, and the freight companies, and the utility companies, and the
And the car companies, and the aerospace companies, and the tire companies, and the plastics companies, and the freight companies, and the utility companies, and the politicians...and so on.
Yeah, I'll admit it's a team effort.
__________________ Hockey's original bad boy. The "Cowboy" Howie Young
And no matter what even the kookiest Leonidas tells you, NOBODY, including the consumer, wants to be saddled with the trickle down amortization of alternative energy development costs.
Wait...put the yellow sticker down there Carpool Cal: I'm talking about REAL alternative energy development...not the hybrid BS they are selling us that requires charging, which requires electricity, which comes from power plants THAT USE OIL & COAL...and pollute at a jim dandy rate, even when compared to the replaced vehicles.
Do you have any evidence that Democrats or Obama are deliberately trying to keep gas prices high? No, you don't, because there is none. You've said yourself in this thread that the supply and demand for a global commodity is the primary reason for high gas prices. It's easy to speculate about what could happen and fall back on the red herring of cheap cynicism: "both sides are bad." But valid arguments require evidence.
Ive no evidence but common sense dictates that the crappier things are between now and election the better it well reflect on the candidate promoting "Hope" and"Change."
Where is the evidence supporting Bush is going to manufacture an act of terrorism? These no base to that either but theres no limit to the number of people who believe it. Same with Gas Prices- If Bush is the oil anti-christ why wouldnt Bush and Oil Companies have gas be a buck or two per gallon? If they can manipulate prices at their whim why not? That would really spark the economy big time and really help the republicans chances come election time so why not make gas super cheap and help his party vs rising gas costs which will certainly hurt his party?
__________________ "The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools."
Why wouldn't they? You answered your own question.
The pessimist in me has believed for some time that we aren't going to see a robust effort to develop alternate fuels until the oil companies have rung every last penny out of the stuff that is still in the ground.
I still like the idea of eliminating their tax breaks and putting a short term time frame on their government land leases.
Yes I answered my own question. It was actually a comment to your statement that I couldn't expect the oil companies to invest in alternate fuels. My question is, why not? They're the logical ones.
And I agree with your last statement. These people are greedy, and try to squeeze every little drop out of the consumer AND the people they do business with.
And before the "free enterprise" (I think that's the term I hear often on this site)yokels come out of the woodwork, I agree that every body is in business to make money. You might want to respect your consumers a little though and not gouge them to line your own pockets. Remember last summer, when the oil companies tried to tell everyone that raising gas prices was because they had to switch formulas between summer and winter? Rubbish!
Ive no evidence but common sense dictates that the crappier things are between now and election the better it well reflect on the candidate promoting "Hope" and"Change."
Where is the evidence supporting Bush is going to manufacture an act of terrorism? These no base to that either but theres no limit to the number of people who believe it. Same with Gas Prices- If Bush is the oil anti-christ why wouldnt Bush and Oil Companies have gas be a buck or two per gallon? If they can manipulate prices at their whim why not? That would really spark the economy big time and really help the republicans chances come election time so why not make gas super cheap and help his party vs rising gas costs which will certainly hurt his party?
Why would Bush and big oil lower prices now when they can squeeze the consumer for the next 3-4 months, then lower prices. Americans memories aren't very long. The closer the election the better.
Why would Bush and big oil lower prices now when they can squeeze the consumer for the next 3-4 months, then lower prices. Americans memories aren't very long. The closer the election the better.
I dont care how short americans memories are....no one will forget these gas prices. High Gas Prices mean high prices across the board-if Bush wanted to help the republicans gas would be 1 or 2 bucks and people would be out spending the extra money on plasma tvs which would virtually guarantee a McCain victory if not make it a might close race as the economy revved into high gear. You scenario makes no sense. Do the oil companies want McCain to lose? If theyre omnipotent and control all why would they sink the economy?
__________________ "The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools."
Last edited by Hipcheck; June 25th, 2008 at 02:14 PM.
If theyre omnipotent and control all why would they sink the economy?
These people have thrown the lives of soliders away for profit. Do you really expect an answer to this? We have proven that a sinking economy doesn't seem to have much of an effect on the top segment of earners.
The oil magnates are greedy motherf'ers, and they've done enough internally to limit competition so they can charge whatever they want for a product that everyone needs.
The oil magnates are greedy motherf'ers, and they've done enough internally to limit competition so they can charge whatever they want for a product that everyone needs.
You can say the same for the Pharmaceutical Companies and the Computer industry as well. Any Big Business plays the same game.
That said you still miss the point...if Republicans are tied to Big Oil and theyre all one big evil machine-why are they creating an environment that may kill the golden goose come november? If theyre all powerful why not create an environment in which people have more money in their pockets and feel better about themselves and the country? Wouldn't that be a much better climate to garner a presidential victory as opposed to the current climate that has the leading pres candidate wanting to levy additional taxes on the industry?
Im not saying big oil are good guys, I am saying that they dont have the power to drastically raise and lower prices on a whim-if they did we'd have low prices and be eating peaches and cream instead of high prices and eating top ramen.
__________________ "The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools."
you guys are missing a bigger picture. china owns 1.8 trillion USD now and approximately 75% of US debt. they are running around in Africa building out infrastructure at NO cost to the host companies, while simply asking for the ability to have first right of refusal to purchase their commodities. The Ren Ming Bi has been slightly unpegged from the USD and is starting to rise in value, and soon, China will release it even more as they catch, then pass, the US' economy.
The USD is the most hated currency in the world now and no one trusts bernanke. the 30 year T-Bill has gone the way of the dinosaur because no one believes that long in the USD any longer.
I heard a great quote over the weekend. The Fed has done something that no one has been able to do before - driven China and Russia together. Pretty soon China, Russia and India will get fed up with the Fed driving our currency to **** and will tell the Fed to stop printing money, because they won't buy our debt instruments. China will be able to use those large cash reserves and buy all the oil (and other commodities) they need, driving prices up even higher. and as their currency gets stronger, they'll be able to buy even more for less.
There is a massive change going on and it isn't going to make a **** worth of difference who is in office. the Fed keeps f'ing us in the ass over and over and over again because there is a belief that we shouldn't ever have to go through a "recession".
That said you still miss the point...if Republicans are tied to Big Oil and theyre all one big evil machine-why are they creating an environment that may kill the golden goose come november? If theyre all powerful why not create an environment in which people have more money in their pockets and feel better about themselves and the country? Wouldn't that be a much better climate to garner a presidential victory as opposed to the current climate that has the leading pres candidate wanting to levy additional taxes on the industry?
Im not saying big oil are good guys, I am saying that they dont have the power to drastically raise and lower prices on a whim-if they did we'd have low prices and be eating peaches and cream instead of high prices and eating top ramen.
Well, I think you're probably aware, nothing about this situation can be simplified like that. There's not a knob on the desk of the CEO of Exxon/Mobil that can be turned up and down each day depending on a whim.
The great thing for oil companies is - they to to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to BOTH parties. Republicans fight for their rights to land (that they don't use), do whatever they can to invest and protect their overseas interests, often at taxpayer expenses. Allowing these companies to have these prices at these levels with all we know about the actual supply and demand (supply is not low, and demand is lower than it was two years ago), this is Enron all over again. Guess which party supported those boys as well?
What happens when a Democrat takes over? Well - gas prices will stay high? Why? Well, the reasons will just change with the political winds. "We can't drill in Alaska, we can't drill off the California Coast, we can't build more refineries because of environmental restrictions."
The oil companies have had seven years of Republican White House rule, including most of those as a majority in the House and Senate. They could have made it as easy any pie for these guys to build whatever refineries they needed. Let's be serious - though - they have no desire (or need, when profits are concerned) with investing in something for the sole purpose to keep the price of their product DOWN. Instead of investing in infrastructure like cleaner technologies and exploration (both amounts are lower for the industry than five years ago), they instead decide to repurchase their own stock with their assets.
Don't get me wrong - as businesses they did it all right. Cornered the market, combined and bullied out any and all competition, and have tight fisted control over a good that every aspect of our lives needs in some for or another.
Makes me yearn for the good ole days when you could go outside and shoot at some food, and up from the ground came a bubblin' crude. Now, if you were to do that, you'd have to find a way to build a multi-billion dollar infrastructure before you could pump and sell a drop of it. Assuming that another company hadn't already laid claim on that land, they just hadn't actually done anything with it yet - which as I understand, is about 75% of the oil leases held right now.
China and India must have increased their demand for oil today drastically because the price of a barrel just went up by over $5 in one day. Seriously, the people who think the high price of oil is due to increased demand are either uninformed, or they are lying in order to keep people uninformed about this crazy speculation business.
Furthermore, drilling off the coast or in ANWR will not do anything to decrease the price of oil for 4 reasons:
1. As stated earlier, the price isn't high because of increased demand or decreased supply.
2. The length of time to build infrastructure and get oil to the pumps is measured in decades, not months.
3. Any oil drilled in the US does not magically appear in US gas stations, but to the global marketplace where anyone can buy it.
4. The real way to drop the price of oil (after this speculation business is either ended through legislation or the bubble pops) isn't to invest all sorts of capital in increasing supply for a short term fix which won't actually drop the price, but to decrease demand through conservation and alternative energy sources.
__________________ "If I could lead you into the Promised Land, I would not do it, because someone else would come along and lead you out."
China and India must have increased their demand for oil today drastically because the price of a barrel just went up by over $5 in one day. Seriously, the people who think the high price of oil is due to increased demand are either uninformed, or they are lying in order to keep people uninformed about this crazy speculation business.
Furthermore, drilling off the coast or in ANWR will not do anything to decrease the price of oil for 4 reasons:
1. As stated earlier, the price isn't high because of increased demand or decreased supply.
2. The length of time to build infrastructure and get oil to the pumps is measured in decades, not months.
3. Any oil drilled in the US does not magically appear in US gas stations, but to the global marketplace where anyone can buy it.
4. The real way to drop the price of oil (after this speculation business is either ended through legislation or the bubble pops) isn't to invest all sorts of capital in increasing supply for a short term fix which won't actually drop the price, but to decrease demand through conservation and alternative energy sources.
5. raise interest rates so our dollar will actually get some purchasing power back in the world.
China and India must have increased their demand for oil today drastically because the price of a barrel just went up by over $5 in one day. Seriously, the people who think the high price of oil is due to increased demand are either uninformed, or they are lying in order to keep people uninformed about this crazy speculation business.
Furthermore, drilling off the coast or in ANWR will not do anything to decrease the price of oil for 4 reasons:
1. As stated earlier, the price isn't high because of increased demand or decreased supply.
2. The length of time to build infrastructure and get oil to the pumps is measured in decades, not months.
3. Any oil drilled in the US does not magically appear in US gas stations, but to the global marketplace where anyone can buy it.
4. The real way to drop the price of oil (after this speculation business is either ended through legislation or the bubble pops) isn't to invest all sorts of capital in increasing supply for a short term fix which won't actually drop the price, but to decrease demand through conservation and alternative energy sources.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nosoupforyou
5. raise interest rates so our dollar will actually get some purchasing power back in the world.
You guys are dead on. I want these tax breaks (subsidies) for big oil eliminated. If I remember correctly, they provided about $13 billion to the oil companies last year. They alr
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