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About This Page: This is a discussion on Politics within the LetsGoKings.com forums, at Los Angeles Kings Hockey Fan Forum. I hate posting e-mails since most of you probably get the same one but here's one anyway.
"This commercial was done by a local kid. You have to watch the
I hate posting e-mails since most of you probably get the same one but here's one anyway.
"This commercial was done by a local kid. You have to watch the whole thing. When he finishes talking and walks away, you get a sense of how this could be the commercial of the campaign season.
Bob Cook and I were on the Lake County Republican Central Committee together.
His son Joe returned from Iraq last year and I was at the celebration to welcome him home."
Hi, My son Joe just did a commercial for John McCain.
If we hadn't been lied into Iraq by Bush, McCain et al in the first place you wouldn't have gone there and you wouldn't have given a **** about the place and you'd still have your leg. A boatload of other guys who went there don't agree with you, in fact disagree with you adamantly. Are they and the other Americans who think you're confused and wrong unpatriotic? 'Waving the bloody shirt' about Iraq and Vietnam is a tactic I have no respect for. It's the equivalent of saying "You should continue to spend 12 billion a month and send your kid to die because others have already gone." Bull****.
__________________
"For if once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." Thomas DeQuincey, 1700's
If we hadn't been lied into Iraq by Bush, McCain et al in the first place you wouldn't have gone there and you wouldn't have given a **** about the place and you'd still have your leg. A boatload of other guys who went there don't agree with you, in fact disagree with you adamantly. Are they and the other Americans who think you're confused and wrong unpatriotic? 'Waving the bloody shirt' about Iraq and Vietnam is a tactic I have no respect for. It's the equivalent of saying \"You should continue to spend 12 billion a month and send your kid to die because others have already gone.\" Bull****.
Wow, you have no sense of either respect or shame do you?
Wow, you have no sense of either respect or shame do you?
Sorry, but someone has to be the one to say the emperor has no clothes. We WERE lied to about the reason for the war, we HAVE lot alot of innocent lives for a cause that has no chance of succeeding. No one has ever said what or how America WINS this war. Iraq will never succeed as a democracy. Everyone is still fighting religious wars and if a nation is going to succeed, you need to separate the state from your religious beliefs and thinking like and IRAQI not as whatever sect you belong to. No matter how long we stay, the minute we leave the whole thing blows up. Do you honestly think that after thousands of years of infighting, they're all of a sudden going to stop?
I work with these people, they haven't changed at all in years. They expect us to follow their rules when they're working in OUR office, let alone their own country.
Just because I have this view DOES NOT mean that I don't respect our troops or that I don't love this country. They're just doing their job, it's their commander that I have no respect for. His motives are purely personal, always have been. If you're reading and listening to the news you'll hear what Bush's advice is going to be to his successor "Don't let it fail". That's a laugh.
This country is in trouble and your comments aren't doing anything to help. You sound like a kindergartner, calling people names when you can't come up with a better argument or change someone's mind. You go vote for McCain/Palin. You'll get more of the same. And if that doesn't scare you enough, then I pity this whole country. I thought we'd wised up.
The only thing Palin did for the GOP was to give all the closet racists a viable alternative so they don't have to stay home on Nov. 4. Now they can vote for a minority without voting for a black man.
First of all the soldier certainly has the right to his opinion. He HAS seen what is going on there. He hasn't seen everything but more than most of us I would imagine. He does have the "easy" opinion since making the claim it was the right thing to do while wearing the uniform isn't all that bold. I bring this up since there many just like him who absolutely DISAGREE with his opinion who, IMO, are regarded as somewhat "unpatriotic" for thinking so...especially when they also wear the uniform.
Secondly, it must be a character flaw of mine or something but I don't like these blatant "patriotism", "flag-waving" or "jingoistic" (or whatever it's called) type reasons to go to war. It didn't bother me at all when I was younger..in fact, I agreed with it. It made sense to me. Now, I just don't know. I mean, what exactly is "patriotism" anyway? Plus, I absolutely HATE that song....it's like "God Bless America"...it just bugs me, I admit it.
That all being said, the thing that bothers me most is a simple question. How is it that helping Iraqis (assuming we did) means that you are helping freedom in AMERICA (specifically)? Another words if we stop fighting, even if it is for some other country, to gain their freedom somehow we here in the U.S. lose our freedoms? How does that work exactly? First, what RIGHT does the US have in making that decision for Iraq? Second, there were AT LEAST 10 times as many Iraqis killed in this war so I again ask what gives the U.S. the right to make that decision? Did we "free" them also? Free them from living I suppose. What self-righteous dimwit came up with this crap anyway?
I dunno. I can see going in and kicking some Taliban ass for 9/11 but using numerous lame excuses, that to anyone with half a brain could tell was pulled out of someone's ass, to go into a country and "free" them WITHOUT THEIR REQUEST just sounds more like German invading Poland (or Austria or who the hell ever) to me. Which is just how many other countries around the world view it...unfortunately.
jom
__________________ Old men's room wall saying: Flush hard, it's a long way to Washington
Could you please elaborate how exactly is Leonidas' post disrespectful or shameful?
He doesn't know what those words mean so he cannot. To him, disagreement is the same as disrespect. And disrespect, especially towards an American soldier, is something you should be ashamed of. Unfortunately, he's been brainwashed into this type of thinking.
If the soldier had an ounce of intellectual courage he could offer truths that aren't based solely on his very biased opinion. I would hate for someone to tell me all my hard-work and sacrifice was a waste. It's a position we can all empathize with. Unfortunately, the absolute truth is that we never had any business in Iraq. And since we have no business in Iraq, all of our work there is for naught.
But life isn't like the NHL, where they can check the replay and set the clock back 10 minutes on a missed goal. And the suffering and sacrifice American soldiers have made for the Iraqi people have been wasted efforts. The Bush Administration proved that the individual solider is just cannon-fodder(or IED fodder, if you will) by sending them out on a bogus mission without proper training nor support. How soon do we forget that soldiers were ordering their OWN armor for their Humvees.
The return of investment for these soldiers lives has been heartache and tears at best. 4000 families, much like the 60 thousand a generation ago, are missing their sons and we don't have anything concrete to show for it. If that's not considered a waste, what is? Well, I guess we've got another base in the Middle East and a shaky ally government who will be overthrown after we leave...I guess that was worth it?
-_Sf
Last edited by seraphim; September 16th, 2008 at 01:53 AM.
No doubt salami's righteous indignation at the resistance some of us are showing to taking a stupidity vow on this topic lines up consistently with the fury he must have displayed at the unfairness of the Swift Boater attacks on war hero John Kerry.
Thank you Sarafim, for answering for me, but I'll field this one myself.
Admittedly, the video was a bit cheesy, with the "flag waving" rah rah stuff that jom mentioned. That being said, the lack of respect for people who have served their country is evident in the tone that Leonidas uses. It's not the message, but the underlying tone of hate for the "pawn" who speaks his mind.
Also, while this has probably been debated ad nauseum, I don't understand how you can proclaim support for the troops, while in the same breath, emboldening the enemy by publicly suggesting that we tuck our tails between our legs and run. How can you not see the hypocrisy there?
I personally think that going into Iraq was a mistake. However, the fact remains that we are where we are, and we need to move forward in the manner that best serves our country considering the current situation. Obama's promise of surrender would only serve to empower an enemy that is going to hate us no matter what, so why is that an option?
Democracy will be a tough sell in Iraq, just as it was in the Balkans, but with time, it will likely catch on. Yes, war is bad, we all know that. I've been there, both in Bosnia and Kuwait. But the situation is what it is. For all of you liberals who love to over tax and spend on the welfare of others, this is a perfect opportunity to help some of the worst off. Why would you not want to stick around until Democracy takes hold?
No doubt salami's righteous indignation at the resistance some of us are showing to taking a stupidity vow on this topic lines up consistently with the fury he must have displayed at the unfairness of the Swift Boater attacks on war hero John Kerry.
John Kerry is no more of a war hero than Jane Fonda.
Also, while this has probably been debated ad nauseum, I don't understand how you can proclaim support for the troops, while in the same breath, emboldening the enemy by publicly suggesting that we tuck our tails between our legs and run. How can you not see the hypocrisy there?
No one really knows who the "enemy" is. In fact, the enemy in this engagement has changed with the political winds, and seems to want to continue to do so. Iraq is a very fluid country socially.
Perhaps when conservatives start understanding that this isn't Cowboys and Indians in their backyard, we'll see more compassion and thought put into their decisions of "wallet first, country and life second."
Quote:
Obama's promise of surrender would only serve to empower an enemy that is going to hate us no matter what, so why is that an option?
You use the term surrender as if he is going to command the troops to drop their guns and put their hands in the air. Again, why does this always sound like nothing more than a backyard childhood game to you? As someone who served, you'd think you'd understand the difference between withdrawl and surrender. After all, we didn't quite finish the job we needed in the Gulf the first time, did we?
Quote:
For all of you liberals who love to over tax and spend on the welfare of others, this is a perfect opportunity to help some of the worst off. Why would you not want to stick around until Democracy takes hold?
Sorry buddy - this excuse doesn't fly, and you know it. There are DOZENS of societies across this world that suffer at the hands of various factors that make them worse off. Many of them could be solved with the money we're spending on Iraq every week without a SINGLE US casualty to go along with it. Helping the Iraqi people should NEVER have been an argument, as it's a slap in the face to hundreds of millions (or billions if we factor in China) of people across the world wondering when it's going to be their turn to see their lives better at the hands of the US. They better start drilling in their backyard to see if we mgiht someday make their dreams come true.
Message to Mr. Obama 
salami
