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About This Page: This is a discussion on Politics within the LetsGoKings.com forums, at Los Angeles Kings Hockey Fan Forum. Since it keeps being repeated (here and elsewhere) that Obama offers no specifics on his proposals even though he has and does and the claim is demonstrably incorrect, I thought
Since it keeps being repeated (here and elsewhere) that Obama offers no specifics on his proposals even though he has and does and the claim is demonstrably incorrect, I thought I'd post this one rather well distributed comparative example of the effect of the tax proposals of McCain and Obama. Last night CNN presented an analysis based on this (again). Please comment and also judge for yourself whether Obama will raise your taxes. Sorry if this has already been posted and discussed and I missed it.
__________________
"For if once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." Thomas DeQuincey, 1700's
Last edited by Leonidas; September 11th, 2008 at 12:21 PM.
Since it keeps being repeated (here and elsewhere) that Obama offers no specifics on his proposals even though he has and does and the claim is demonstrably incorrect, I thought I'd post this one rather well distributed comparative example of the effect of the tax proposals of McCain and Obama. Last night CNN presented an analysis based on this (again). Please comment and also judge for yourself whether Obama will raise your taxes. Sorry if this has already been posted and discussed and I missed it.
Does this "income" include small business? They are the ones that will get creamed by Obamas tax plan. These businesses might make enough "income" on the tax level to get waylaid even though the people that own it are barely scrapping by. And, why should the people who make a lot of money keep financing the poor worthless dregs of society? Where is the incentive for the guys who are busting hump to make it and become rich to do so? The Dems just want to take your money and give it to the people with their hands out. That is their voting base. Keep the people down yet promise them free stuff. It's no wonder more and more jobs are going overseas. The "rich" company owners and executives are going to be taxed right out of the country. Just look at France and England. The rich are leaving in droves. California for a closer example - the Dems in this state have set California up as one of the top taxed states. Thus, more and more business are going to other states. My personal taxes (income only) might not get a huge increase under Obama (right now) but there will be all kinds of new taxes on everything else that will begin to add up. Face it - the Dems are the tax and handout party. I don't care what Obama claims his "current" tax plan is to get elected. If he wins combined with the likely increase in Dem seats in the House and Senate, what is to stop one of the most liberal candidates in recent history from continuing to tax until we are all dependant on the government? I'd rather take my chances on someone who if elected will not be able to really do that much with both houses in Dem control. His possible mistakes will be lesser than if Obama wins. If you don't think Obama will continue once in office down a taxing slope - just look at the ridiculous notion of windfall taxes. That and Socialized Healthcare (someone has to pay for that) are clear examples of the mess he very well could put us in. And the fact that the terrorist World and most of the other socialized countries in the World are completely in favor of Obama winning makes it quite clear that he is the wrong choice for President. I detest the "right wing religous" folks but I don't think McCain/Palin will really be able to enact any crazy legislation without control of both houses. Obama will.
__________________ "The day the masses figure out that they can vote to give themselves money is the day Democracy dies"
Does this \"income\" include small business? They are the ones that will get creamed by Obamas tax plan. These businesses might make enough \"income\" on the tax level to get waylaid even though the people that own it are barely scrapping by. And, why should the people who make a lot of money keep financing the poor worthless dregs of society? Where is the incentive for the guys who are busting hump to make it and become rich to do so? The Dems just want to take your money and give it to the people with their hands out. That is their voting base. Keep the people down yet promise them free stuff. It's no wonder more and more jobs are going overseas. The \"rich\" company owners and executives are going to be taxed right out of the country. Just look at France and England. The rich are leaving in droves. California for a closer example - the Dems in this state have set California up as one of the top taxed states. Thus, more and more business are going to other states. My personal taxes (income only) might not get a huge increase under Obama (right now) but there will be all kinds of new taxes on everything else that will begin to add up. Face it - the Dems are the tax and handout party. I don't care what Obama claims his \"current\" tax plan is to get elected. If he wins combined with the likely increase in Dem seats in the House and Senate, what is to stop one of the most liberal candidates in recent history from continuing to tax until we are all dependant on the government? I'd rather take my chances on someone who if elected will not be able to really do that much with both houses in Dem control. His possible mistakes will be lesser than if Obama wins. If you don't think Obama will continue once in office down a taxing slope - just look at the ridiculous notion of windfall taxes. That and Socialized Healthcare (someone has to pay for that) are clear examples of the mess he very well could put us in. And the fact that the terrorist World and most of the other socialized countries in the World are completely in favor of Obama winning makes it quite clear that he is the wrong choice for President. I detest the \"right wing religous\" folks but I don't think McCain/Palin will really be able to enact any crazy legislation without control of both houses. Obama will.
Is this like a spin-off of the Colbert Report or something?
Does this \"income\" include small business? They are the ones that will get creamed by Obamas tax plan. These businesses might make enough \"income\" on the tax level to get waylaid even though the people that own it are barely scrapping by. And, why should the people who make a lot of money keep financing the poor worthless dregs of society? Where is the incentive for the guys who are busting hump to make it and become rich to do so? The Dems just want to take your money and give it to the people with their hands out. That is their voting base. Keep the people down yet promise them free stuff. It's no wonder more and more jobs are going overseas. The \"rich\" company owners and executives are going to be taxed right out of the country. Just look at France and England. The rich are leaving in droves. California for a closer example - the Dems in this state have set California up as one of the top taxed states. Thus, more and more business are going to other states. My personal taxes (income only) might not get a huge increase under Obama (right now) but there will be all kinds of new taxes on everything else that will begin to add up. Face it - the Dems are the tax and handout party. I don't care what Obama claims his \"current\" tax plan is to get elected. If he wins combined with the likely increase in Dem seats in the House and Senate, what is to stop one of the most liberal candidates in recent history from continuing to tax until we are all dependant on the government? I'd rather take my chances on someone who if elected will not be able to really do that much with both houses in Dem control. His possible mistakes will be lesser than if Obama wins. If you don't think Obama will continue once in office down a taxing slope - just look at the ridiculous notion of windfall taxes. That and Socialized Healthcare (someone has to pay for that) are clear examples of the mess he very well could put us in. And the fact that the terrorist World and most of the other socialized countries in the World are completely in favor of Obama winning makes it quite clear that he is the wrong choice for President. I detest the \"right wing religous\" folks but I don't think McCain/Palin will really be able to enact any crazy legislation without control of both houses. Obama will.
That's just plain drivel. Companys started moving out of California a long time ago, nothing's changed. And Arnold has done nothing to change the corporate tax structure. You need to watch the paper around the first of the year and watch how much the CEO's are making. They do absolute nothing except collect their money and when the bottom falls out (Enron, etc.) they claim they knew nothing of what went on. Maybe they should pay back they're salary - obviously they're not doing their job.
And your coporations that are sending jobs overseas, are doing so strictly because the labor is cheaper (or was) and that helped the bottom line which helped line their pockets with bonus money. And before you ask for a link, I work for a company that has been sending jobs to India and the Phillipines since the early 90's. And the fastest growing economies now are the middle class in India due to engineering and the technical work being sent over there. It's not as cheap as it used to be. That's not gonna be so lucrative either.
Unless you're making $250,000/yr your taxes will go down under Obama. You know what, under Obama's plan my husband and I will pay more in taxes. Under McCain's tax plan we'd get a tax cut. I don't think taxing the "rich" is such a bad idea if the lower and middle classes get a leg up. They're killing the lower classes. I kinda agree with Warren Buffet. He did a study at his company and his secretary paid a larger % in taxes than he did. It didn't make to sense Warren Buffet either.
Since it keeps being repeated (here and elsewhere) that Obama offers no specifics on his proposals even though he has and does and the claim is demonstrably incorrect, I thought I'd post this one rather well distributed comparative example of the effect of the tax proposals of McCain and Obama. Last night CNN presented an analysis based on this (again). Please comment and also judge for yourself whether Obama will raise your taxes. Sorry if this has already been posted and discussed and I missed it.
I saw some goofy dude on CNN the other night discussing this. He actually broke down the numbers and plans of both candidates, but also broke them down between stump speeches and actual plans they had. Interestingly enough, even THOSE two were different. The end result he found was that the actual plans were very similar for the middle class. I believe he said that by 2012, Obama would save the 33-68k people about 1200 a year and McCain would save them about 950. I could be off in the actual numbers, but they were very close.
That's just plain drivel. Companys started moving out of California a long time ago, nothing's changed. And Arnold has done nothing to change the corporate tax structure. You need to watch the paper around the first of the year and watch how much the CEO's are making. They do absolute nothing except collect their money and when the bottom falls out (Enron, etc.) they claim they knew nothing of what went on. Maybe they should pay back they're salary - obviously they're not doing their job.
And your coporations that are sending jobs overseas, are doing so strictly because the labor is cheaper (or was) and that helped the bottom line which helped line their pockets with bonus money. And before you ask for a link, I work for a company that has been sending jobs to India and the Phillipines since the early 90's. And the fastest growing economies now are the middle class in India due to engineering and the technical work being sent over there. It's not as cheap as it used to be. That's not gonna be so lucrative either.
Unless you're making $250,000/yr your taxes will go down under Obama. You know what, under Obama's plan my husband and I will pay more in taxes. Under McCain's tax plan we'd get a tax cut. I don't think taxing the \"rich\" is such a bad idea if the lower and middle classes get a leg up. They're killing the lower classes. I kinda agree with Warren Buffet. He did a study at his company and his secretary paid a larger % in taxes than he did. It didn't make to sense Warren Buffet either.
California has been in Dem hands a "long time ago". And funny enough, a previous Repub governor handed them more power around the time of Prop 13 adding to this fustercluck of a budget problem we have now. Arnold is a joke, btw. CEOs get the big bucks because they are in charge and make the decisions. If they don't make the quotas, they are out. Sure there will be some corruption. How did things end up with the guys from Enron? Companies pay top dollar to get the guy or gal they want. It's called market competition. My comment about sending jobs overseas or to other states - it will happen MORE due to increasing taxes. Of course it's being done due due to cheaper labor AND CHEAPER TAXES. A companies bottom line (i.e. profit) stems from many things. Taxes is a very large factor. Are you in favor of "windfall taxes"? Because, those who invest the most $$, then profit, should be taxed the most, right? Why take financial risk when you will give more of it back? Why innovate or work harder? Do some reading on capitalism. And check on the small businesses and how they will be affected under the Obama plan.
Bringing religion up at a time like this seems rash, but I would like to thank God that AB isn't responsible for setting our national economic agenda. Apparently being oblivious to the last 8 years of Republican dominated policy can do crazy things to you.
Brad DeLong - He was on Clinton's team in the 90s. He is a professor of economics at Cal Berkeley. A bit too much reactionary politics though. Some interesting historical economics posts. The most epic being the one on Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs, and Steel.
Econobrowser - James Hamilton (a professor at UC San Diego). His recession model is at 95%
Big Picture - Barry Ritholtz.. Mainly about day to day financials. Called the financial mess a while back.
Krugmans Blog - Paul Krugman - Well known economist and NY Times Columnist. Proponent of Universal Health Care.
The Mess That Greenspan Made - Just some retired Computer Scientist - Best amateur economics blog.
Last edited by go; September 11th, 2008 at 04:00 PM.
California has been in Dem hands a \"long time ago\". And funny enough, a previous Repub governor handed them more power around the time of Prop 13 adding to this fustercluck of a budget problem we have now. Arnold is a joke, btw. CEOs get the big bucks because they are in charge and make the decisions. If they don't make the quotas, they are out. Sure there will be some corruption. How did things end up with the guys from Enron? Companies pay top dollar to get the guy or gal they want. It's called market competition. My comment about sending jobs overseas or to other states - it will happen MORE due to increasing taxes. Of course it's being done due due to cheaper labor AND CHEAPER TAXES. A companies bottom line (i.e. profit) stems from many things. Taxes is a very large factor. Are you in favor of \"windfall taxes\"? Because, those who invest the most $$, then profit, should be taxed the most, right? Why take financial risk when you will give more of it back? Why innovate or work harder? Do some reading on capitalism. And check on the small businesses and how they will be affected under the Obama plan.
You can read all you want. I know what has happened to my company. I know how they calculate the bottom line, and how much money they make, the perks they get. Our last CEO cost us $350MM trying to implement SAP (we are an engineering company) and all we got out of it was an electronic timecard system and that doesn't work too well most of the time. He ran the company so far in the dumper they had to buy out his contract to get him out of here. $20MM on top of his already inflated salary. Guess where they took the money from? Not their bonuses, that's for sure. We got no raises for several years and more people got laid off, less benefits. What's wrong with having a performance clause in their contract?
What's funny is all the book-cooking isn't doing them any good right now. We have more backlog for the next few years than we can handle with the current staff and our stock keeps going down. They have us tied to the price of oil instead of our backlog and every time oil goes down so does our stock! What a laugh, Wall Street's really on top of things. With all the energy/drilling/coal/fuels talk, we stand to be busy for years. Our stock just split and one analyst (without checking her facts obviously) stated in her column that our stock had dropped 57%.
Our company headquarters moved to the Dallas area. Guess what? No state taxes BUT if you own a home you get nailed. In parts of Texas your property taxes are around 4%. That's a big bill for the rich corporate people.
Does this \"income\" include small business? They are the ones that will get creamed by Obamas tax plan. These businesses might make enough \"income\" on the tax level to get waylaid even though the people that own it are barely scrapping by. And, why should the people who make a lot of money keep financing the poor worthless dregs of society? Where is the incentive for the guys who
On the McCain Claim that Obama Will Raise "Your" Taxes 
fansince67
