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About This Page: This is a discussion on Politics within the LetsGoKings.com forums, at Los Angeles Kings Hockey Fan Forum. Paulson targets mortgage-related investments to save markets - Sep. 19, 2008
When a forest grows too wild, a purging fire is inevitable and natural.
This is like bulldozing our kids,
When a forest grows too wild, a purging fire is inevitable and natural.
This is like bulldozing our kids, grandkids and several generations of our offspring's houses and financial futures to allow a forest of disease to grow.
I'm livid.
__________________ -Fish
"When you can't run anymore you crawl, and when you can't crawl, when you can't do that..."
Karma to whomever can finish that.
Last edited by FishMonger; September 19th, 2008 at 09:37 AM.
Reason: Fixed quote
Yeah, it's a bit infuriating that these companies can make idiotic decisions then somehow expect the govt to come in and help out when it blows up in their face. The govt, at the very least, should be helping some less well off INDIVIDUALS, not stupid companies and their ass-kissing shareholders. I mean, where were the shareholders when some of these CEOs were getting multi-million dollar severance packages for doing a ****ty job?
jom
__________________ Old men's room wall saying: Flush hard, it's a long way to Washington
Yeah, it's a bit infuriating that these companies can make idiotic decisions then somehow expect the govt to come in and help out when it blows up in their face. The govt, at the very least, should be helping some less well off INDIVIDUALS, not stupid companies and their ass-kissing shareholders. I mean, where were the shareholders when some of these CEOs were getting multi-million dollar severance packages for doing a ****ty job?
jom
Um... yeah. Many of these "individuals" were the ones flipping real estate trying to get rich quick on the banks dime. Others simply bought homes they could not afford because lending institutions were willing to give money to people they shouldn’t have. Why? The Clinton administration wanted to expand the dream of owning a home to people in low-income areas so they changed the rules. A noble idea, but one with bad consequences. They forced lending institutions to make risky loans in low income areas, creating the original market for sub-prime mortgages. Those companies were not engaging in predatory practices to line their pockets, they had to lower lending standards to avoid stiff government penalties.
And the CEO's? Lets start with Franklin Raines. Ring any bells? Former Clinton crony, moved over to become CEO of Fannie Mae, cooked the books so that he and his buddies could net $100 million in bonuses from the taxpayer subsidized company. In the end Fannie Mae had to pay $400 million in fines. Did he go to jail like the guys from Enron? No way. All Raines got was a slap on the wrist back in April because he was protected by democrats in Congress. In June it was reported that he was getting below market loans from Countrywide becase whe was one of the "Friends of Angelo" (Countrywide's CEO) Today he is an economic advisor to Barak Obama on the mortgage crisis.
I don't just want to pick on democrats here, because both sides are to blame. Both rake in huge donations from Wall Street and in turn, politicians end up working in those frims when they leave govenment service. They also get their kids and friends high-paying jobs there as well. It's just that there is a suggestion that this happened under Bush so the administration bears most of the blame. Fact is there is plenty of blame to go around, and congress deserves a lot of it.
To be sure there was greed and corruption on the part of rich and powerful that contributed to the problem. However, this thing runs from top to bottom. It's individuals, politicians (from both sides), fund managers, banks, corporations, etc. The blame goes in every direction. They all profited from this thing. Unfortunately, in the end, it is up to the taxpayers to absolve them of thier risky dealings.
What’s just as disturbing is what Harry Reid said yesterday, that "no one knows what to do" at the moment. Congress is willing to adjourn and leave Paulson and Bernanke to try and clean up the mess. Fortunately those two guys seem to be winning the battle to restore confidence, but at what price?
Last edited by DeaderFan; September 19th, 2008 at 11:46 AM.
so, as a true capitalist, a better question is how do we profit from it?
dollar will continue to drop in value due to needing more and more $, causing rising inflation and prices going up. commodities will continue to get more expensive? gas turn around and get more expensive? Gold and all precious metals will become more expensive. new bubble is formed in commodities?
Um... yeah. Many of these \\"individuals\\" were the ones flipping real estate trying to get rich quick on the banks dime. Others simply bought homes they could not afford because lending institutions were willing to give money to people they shouldn’t have. Why? The Clinton administration wanted to expand the dream of owning a home to people in low-income areas so they changed the rules. A noble idea, but one with bad consequences. They forced lending institutions to make risky loans in low income areas, creating the original market for sub-prime mortgages. Those companies were not engaging in predatory practices to line their pockets, they had to lower lending standards to avoid stiff government penalties.
This isn't true. The subprime mortgage crisis had nothing to do with Clinton. While true that the Clinton administration wanted more people to have the opportunity to become homeowners, it never would have advocated for the predatory loans that only truly began in earnest in 2004-06 after banking regulations were continually rolled back to the pre-Depression era style.
And the CEO's? Lets start with Franklin Raines. Ring any bells? Former Clinton crony, moved over to become CEO of Fannie Mae, cooked the books so that he and his buddies could net $100 million in bonuses from the taxpayer subsidized company. In the end Fannie Mae had to pay $400 million in fines. Did he go to jail like the guys from Enron? No way. All Raines got was a slap on the wrist back in April because he was protected by democrats in Congress. In June it was reported that he was getting below market loans from Countrywide becase whe was one of the \"Friends of Angelo\" (Countrywide's CEO) Today he is an economic advisor to Barak Obama on the mortgage crisis.
Raines is not and never was an Obama economic or housing advisor. This is another fabrication by the McCain campaign.
This isn't true. The subprime mortgage crisis had nothing to do with Clinton. While true that the Clinton administration wanted more people to have the opportunity to become homeowners, it never would have advocated for the predatory loans that only truly began in earnest in 2004-06 after banking regulations were continually rolled back to the pre-Depression era style.
So now WaPo clears the air after the Raines becomes a potential liability for Obama? Fine. Did they clear up the point on why he is not in jail now? Maybe we should ask the democrats on the hill? We will just have to disagree about Clinton and whether his housing policies and his cronnies' mismanagement of Freddie and Fannie had anything to do with the current mess. I believe it did. The point of my comments was that there is plenty of blame to go around. No one is immune from criticisim here, even the so-called "individuals."
you know what, people can point fingers all day as to who is responsible for the mess. every moment that we take to do that takes us AWAY FROM SOLVING THE PROBLEM.
you know what, people can point fingers all day as to who is responsible for the mess. every moment that we take to do that takes us AWAY FROM SOLVING THE PROBLEM.
Sure, but knowing how this happened (deregulation of banks allowing them to make predatory loans, no regulations on "swapping," bundling risky loans together and then selling them as "mortgage backed securities," both of which are the fault of Republicans in general and Phil Gramm in particular) is the only way to prevent it from happening again.
So now WaPo clears the air after the Raines becomes a potential liability for Obama? Fine. Did they clear up the point on why he is not in jail now? Maybe we should ask the democrats on the hill? We will just have to disagree about Clinton and whether his housing policies and his cronnies' mismanagement of Freddie and Fannie had anything to do with the current mess. I believe it did. The point of my comments was that there is plenty of blame to go around. No one is immune from criticisim here, even the so-called \"individuals.\"
We're still blaming Bill Clinton? What f***ing century am I in?
you know what, people can point fingers all day as to who is responsible for the mess. every moment that we take to do that takes us AWAY FROM SOLVING THE PROBLEM.
Thanks, Pollyanna, for your input.
Might I now suggest to you that these things happen for a reason, or reasons? That basic forensic questions of how and why this systemic failure happened might yield answers as to who or what is responsible, and that by ascertaining these details, we might be better able to avoid future problems?
The only people who don't like the blame game are those that deserve to get blamed--there's plenty to go around, I'll give you that, but we need to ask some difficult and pointed questions to find out how to avoid this in the future. If that means heads roll, so it goes.
can you explain to anyone why it happened WITHOUT pointing a finger?
No, because it didn't happen in a vacuum. It happened because of specific decisions that people in government, on Wall St., and on Main St. made. Those decisions, and the persons who made them, need to identified and even castigated. I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings.
What's most important is to avoid future meltdowns like this. I imagine you'd agree with me on that much. We can do that best if we can ascertain the reasons why
Let's Bailout everybody! 
salami
