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About This Page: This is a discussion on Politics within the LetsGoKings.com forums, at Los Angeles Kings Hockey Fan Forum. Going negative is nothing new of course take the Willie Horton ad in 1988:
YouTube - Willie Horton political ad 1988
YouTube - Willie Horton political ad 1988
But 12
But 12 years later, G Dub really kicked off the negative campaigning against members of his own party during the infamous South Carolina primary when his push pollers asked voters: "Would you be more likely or less likely to vote for John McCain for president if you knew he had fathered an illegitimate black child?"
Of course there was no truth in the fake poll question; McCain and his wife had adopted a Bangladeshi girl. But the damage was done, and GWB went on to win SC playing off South Carolinans' racism and "morality."
Now days, negative ads are almost always done by 527s, whether they are complete BS, like the swift boat ads in '04, or this year, once again in South Carolina, a Republican 527 came out with this ad:
And this ad is true so it makes it all the more brutal, just like the Willie Horton ad. It always seems to go negative now by the time the Republicans get to South Carolina. You see nothing of this sort on Democratic side. Sure, there are a few zings! and subtle allusions but nothing like these attack ads.
__________________ "If I could lead you into the Promised Land, I would not do it, because someone else would come along and lead you out."
Last edited by OddManRush; January 10th, 2008 at 03:47 PM.
For the record-I dont have speakers at work thus cant listen to the context of either clip. That said-
I think Going Negative is just politics as usual across the board. Thinking Republicans are the only ones to employ this trick is like thinking Mark McGuire was the only baseball player to use steroids.
I believe it was that same election in 1988 were Dukakis ran an ad with the song "teach your children" alternating pictures of smiling children and nuclear missiles.
Maybe not as blunt as the Horton ad but not exactly subtle. Theyre both whores and arguing one has more ethics then the other is like arguing evil vs evil light.
That said....more about Willie Horton.
On October 26, 1974, in Lawrence, Massachusetts, Horton and two accomplices robbed Joseph Fournier, a 17-year-old gas station attendant, stabbed him 19 times, and left him in a trash can. Fournier died from blood loss. Horton was convicted of murder, sentenced to life imprisonment, and incarcerated at the Concord Correctional Facility in Massachusetts.
On June 6, 1986, he was released as part of a weekend furlough program but did not return. On April 3, 1987 in Oxon Hill, Maryland, Horton twice raped a local woman after pistol-whipping, knifing, binding, and gagging her fiancé. He then stole the car belonging to the man he had assaulted, but was later captured by police after a chase. On October 20, Horton was sentenced in Maryland to two consecutive life terms plus 85 years. The sentencing judge, Vincent J. Femia, refused to return Horton to Massachusetts, saying, "I'm not prepared to take the chance that Mr. Horton might again be furloughed or otherwise released. This man should never draw a breath of free air again." This was reported in the October 1987 Reader's Digest.
Last edited by Hipcheck; January 10th, 2008 at 03:56 PM.
Hipcheck, take off those rose colored glasses. You know that only the Republicans make those type of ads.
__________________ I haven't crapped Obediah's pants since December 15th, 2007, stay away from the nachos at Champps. Tonga ate all of my mac and cheese, you bastard.
Politics is a tough business, if the candidates don't like it they don't have to run. Voters have the responsibility of seeing through the ads to determine where the truth lies and which candidate best represents their values and viewpoints.
__________________ Hockey's original bad boy. The "Cowboy" Howie Young
I was referring more to Republican vs. Republican attacks which seem to happen every election cycle now, especially as the primaries reach South Carolina.
And my post was meant to convey a sort of evolution for attack ads, with the most negative usually saved for the general election (a la Willie Horton), to now, with this anti-Huckabee ad and the push polling.
So if Republicans are resorting to negative ads of this caliber during the primaries, and the Democrats are doing no such thing and have not in the past, I ask this: Is the negative ad tactic more of a Republican or Democratic play in elections?
Last edited by OddManRush; January 10th, 2008 at 05:29 PM.
The republican platform is not a winner with the American people. Their ideology is basically crap, history has debunked it, and they know they can not win on the issues. Obviously demonizing their opponents is their best option.
The republican platform is not a winner with the American people. Their ideology is basically crap, history has debunked it, and they know they can not win on the issues. Obviously demonizing their opponents is their best option.
...arguing one has more ethics then the other is like arguing evil vs evil light.
That said....more about Willie Horton.
On October 26, 1974, in Lawrence, Massachusetts, Horton and two accomplices robbed Joseph Fournier, a 17-year-old gas station attendant, stabbed him 19 times, and left him in a trash can. Fournier died from blood loss. Horton was convicted of murder, sentenced to life imprisonment, and incarcerated at the Concord Correctional Facility in Massachusetts.
On June 6, 1986, he was released as part of a weekend furlough program but did not return. On April 3, 1987 in Oxon Hill, Maryland, Horton twice raped a local woman after pistol-whipping, knifing, binding, and gagging her fiancé. He then stole the car belonging to the man he had assaulted, but was later captured by police after a chase. On October 20, Horton was sentenced in Maryland to two consecutive life terms plus 85 years. The sentencing judge, Vincent J. Femia, refused to return Horton to Massachusetts, saying, "I'm not prepared to take the chance that Mr. Horton might again be furloughed or otherwise released. This man should never draw a breath of free air again." This was reported in the October 1987 Reader's Digest.
Describing what Willie Horton did is entirely beside the point if the issue is dirty campaign tactics. Willie Horton did what he did, not Democratic candidate Dukakis. The state of Massachusetts had a weekend furlough program and prison authorities let Horton into it. Dukakis didn't personally let Horton out of jail and wasn't responsible for his crimes any more than Scharzenneger is responsible if you have a bad day at the DMV, or than he will be responsible if some of the thousands of prisoners who he says may need to be released because of the California budget crunch go out and commit more crimes.
Lee Atwater, the first Karl Rove, put together the Bush #1 '88 campaign for president and they ran the Horton ad because, as Atwater said of Dukakis, I want to "strip the bark off this little bastard" and "make Willie Horton his running mate."
The issue is, do Republicans use racist appeals in dirty campaigns to defeat each other and to defeat Democratic opponents as well?
The answer is unequivically "YES."
Is that different from one party of the other claiming that the nation and its citizens will be endangered by the foreign policy positions of the other party--Repubs=War, Dems=unpatriotic weakness--?? YES. Those claims are "tough politics," appealing to racial fears and resentments AREN'T just tough campaigning that both parties do, it's racism, plain and simple...And no, campaigning AGAINST what one sees as racism, even if you're an idiot sometimes, isn't the same as campaigning to exploit race hatred, so the Al Sharpton card is a bull**** evasion and non-response to this issue, because he doesn't run Democratic campaigns for office.
This commentary by Karl Rove from the Wall Street Journal yesterday is the toe in the water to test how the Republicans will couch and code their appeal to white racism in the coming election if Obama is the Democratic candidate.
It is funny how this commentary makes it so clear that Rove and the Republicans are frantic to have H. Clinton be the Dem candidate.
At the same time, the article was a clear warning to Democratic campaigners that the Republicans can, and will, use a racist campaign against Obama to defeat him.
I won't point out the race code in the Rove piece, but if those of you who are Republicans and conservatives out there can't find it and honestly acknowledge it on your own, you're countenancing the tactic of racism by denying its existence.
Note further, one of the reasons the Republican establishment in general doesn't favor McCain or Huckabee is that they can't trust either man to use this indispensable weapon in the Republican arsenal. campaign
__________________
"For if once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." Thomas DeQuincey, 1700's
Last edited by Leonidas; January 11th, 2008 at 03:47 PM.
So, in response to what you just said Leo, wouldn't you say the ads the NAACP ran against Bush in 2000 saying that he killed James Byrd (twice) was just as bad as the Willie Horton ad? What about the one the dems ran on their website with the Republicans pushing the old people in wheelchairs down stairs to their death? Hardball politics or fear-mongering?
So, in response to what you just said Leo, wouldn't you say the ads the NAACP ran against Bush in 2000 saying that he killed James Byrd (twice) was just as bad as the Willie Horton ad? What about the one the dems ran on their website with the Republicans pushing the old people in wheelchairs down stairs to their death? Hardball politics or fear-mongering?
So, in response to what you just said Leo, wouldn't you say the ads the NAACP ran against Bush in 2000 saying that he killed James Byrd (twice) was just as bad as the Willie Horton ad? What about the one the dems ran on their website with the Republicans pushing the old people in wheelchairs down stairs to their death? Hardball politics or fear-mongering?
I've heard of the NAACP ad and it didn't say anything about GWB killing Byrd. Here's the link:
And I've never even heard of the Wheelchair one. Link?
Unless they changed it, it had his daughter saying that because Bush didn't support hate crime legislation, it was like her father was killed twice. Now, if you want to get into semantics, sure. . .it didn't say he killed him. Anyone that wants to be honest though can draw the parallel.
I'll see if I can find anything about the wheelchair one. There's some references to the ad if you do a google search, but nothing substantial other than a mention of it.
Unless they changed it, it had his daughter saying that because Bush didn't support hate crime legislation, it was like her father was killed twice. Now, if you want to get into semantics, sure. . .it didn't say he killed him. Anyone that wants to be honest though can draw the parallel.
I'll see if I can find anything about the wheelchair one. There's some references to the ad if you do a google search, but nothing substantial other than a mention of it.
Anyone that is truly honest will see the commercial, realize that hate crimes still happen, and then question why Bush (the Governor of a state notorious for the death penalty) is against this particular tougher law.
So, in response to what you just said Leo, wouldn't you say the ads the NAACP ran against Bush in 2000 saying that he killed James Byrd (twice) was just as bad as the Willie Horton ad? What about the one the dems ran on their website with the Republicans pushing the old people in wheelchairs down stairs to their death? Hardball politics or fear-mongering?
Nope, the NAACP ad isn't the same or "just as bad." I explained why toward the middle of my original post.
When an organization like the NAACP, with a long history of supporting equal rights and opposing racism, makes an ad like the Bryd ad supporting anti-racist hate crime laws and condemning Bush for opposing them (even if it is very harsh), that is not equivalent to a political party and its leaders and campaign officials issuing an ad that appeals, in general, to white voters in the US to vote on the basis of racial fears and hatreds. If we conflate and equate the two things we excuse the Republican Party to continue to make the kinds of racist appeals that characterized the strategies of Lee Atwater (which he later acknowledged and apologized for to Dukakis and others), and Karl Rove.
I'd be interested to know what you thought of the Karl Rove piece.
Going Negative: The Republican Go-to Play 
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