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About This Page: This is a discussion on Politics within the LetsGoKings.com forums, at Los Angeles Kings Hockey Fan Forum. OMG SOCIALISM!
Stock Market up as I type this.
The Big Picture | Fannie + Freddie = Frannie ?
Short History of Frannie and Freddie at the link above.
Again, everything is wonderful when the market is a BULL but when the market tanks it's time for some govt intervention. Why can't they just let it fail? In the future won't more companies take chances and expect the govt to bail them out? Bull market capitalism with Bear market socialism.
It is a bit troubling that FNMA has gone down so badly. It was once a damn good company with good ideas. Peter Lynch always had them in his Fidelity fund. I guess everyone got caught up in the "loan game" the last few years....
jom
__________________ Old men's room wall saying: Flush hard, it's a long way to Washington
Last edited by jom; September 9th, 2008 at 11:45 AM.
They shouldn't have bught those loans. If they had any sense, they would nohave seen this coming. It's their own bleeding fault, and now tax payers get to foot the bill.
If the government doesn't do anything for these mortgage corps, the tax-payer is going to foot the bill anyways. I'd rather be upfront and bail them out here and now than bail out the millions of soon-to-be-foreclosed Americans with unemployment and welfare checks.
Similarly, it makes economical sense to create a universal health care system, as opposed to letting people get sick or paying for bull**** emergency room visits.
Yeah, if the entity backing some unreal portion of the housing market (which is insane thanks to speculators) went tits-up it would pretty well be then end of life as we know it.
There would be no loans of any kind being made....small business, auto, home...none. The credit structure on which our system is built (read debt structure) would fall apart.
And....I thought privitization was the answer to everything? I suppose this is another example of why greed is not good. The Ma Bell got broken up, service went in the crapper and charges went through the roof. When banks got deregulated, people got hurt. Now, the mortgage market is all screwed by a combination of factors, not the least of which is that no one was watching the store.....
__________________ I'm no theologian. I don't know who or what God is. All I know is he's more powerful than Mom and Dad put together.
-Lisa Simpson
You on the other hand are never wrong.
-Bad91
Last edited by darthrob13; September 9th, 2008 at 06:57 AM.
If the government doesn't do anything for these mortgage corps, the tax-payer is going to foot the bill anyways. I'd rather be upfront and bail them out here and now than bail out the millions of soon-to-be-foreclosed Americans with unemployment and welfare checks.
Similarly, it makes economical sense to create a universal health care system, as opposed to letting people get sick or paying for bull**** emergency room visits.
-_Sf
It would be a market correction. Welcome to capitalism. If you don't like it, go to Russia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthrob13
Yeah, if the entity backing some unreal portion of the housing market (which is insane thanks to speculators) went tits-up it would pretty well be then end of life as we know it.
There would be no loans of any kind being made....small business, auto, home...none. The credit structure on which our system is built (read debt structure) would fall apart.
And....I thought privitization was the answer to everything? I suppose this is another example of why greed is not good. The Ma Bell got broken up, service went in the crapper and charges went through the roof. When banks got deregulated, people got hurt. Now, the mortgage market is all screwed by a combination of factors, not the least of which is that no one was watching the store.....
End of life as we know it, huh? No... just, no.
Here's my biggest issue with it, and it's been mentioned before, but I'll say it again. Things like this need to happen. Should the government go ahead and pay all the mortgages for people who are getting foreclosed? NO! The market has cycles. Some people get screwed. It sucks, oh well. Be smarter next time.
Fannie May and Freddie Mac saw this coming. They knew it was going to happen, and the SOB execs still bought the loans. Why? Probably because they have golden parachutes that they negotiated when everything was way inflated. If anyone in the inudustry didn't see this coming 4-5+ years ago, they were stupid, and the company must die as a result. That's the way it is. But I'll wager that they did, bought the *****y loans knowing this was going to happen, and because they knew the government was going to bail them out, they didn't give a flying rats behind.
The bailout it basically a reward for screwing over millions of people, and if we get into the habit of doing this, companies will have little or no incentive to do whats right. They'll know that if they screw enough people, they'll get bailed out and the execs will get wealthy.
Sure, guys. Great plan. Let's keep up these bailouts.
The bailout it basically a reward for screwing over millions of people, and if we get into the habit of doing this, companies will have little or no incentive to do whats right.
.
Exactly. I certainly think the regulation of these entities or at least some friggen basic RULES need to be implemented but the bailout non-sense has to cease. In fact, I don't even believe the general public who bought into this market should be bailed out. The fact of the matter is many of these loans were at 100% which means the owners didn't really own anything so what is it they are actually losing here? Equity? What equity? If there was any equity they would have this problem. Why do I as a tax payer have to pay for someone else buying a home they clearly could not afford? This, of course, extends to the bank who funded these loans. While we are at it the mortgage loan fraud crooks should be put in jail....
A flushing of the system is needed to get things back on track at the minimum.
Yeah, if the entity backing some unreal portion of the housing market (which is insane thanks to speculators) went tits-up it would pretty well be then end of life as we know it.
There would be no loans of any kind being made....small business, auto, home...none. The credit structure on which our system is built (read debt structure) would fall apart.
And....I thought privitization was the answer to everything? I suppose this is another example of why greed is not good. The Ma Bell got broken up, service went in the crapper and charges went through the roof. When banks got deregulated, people got hurt. Now, the mortgage market is all screwed by a combination of factors, not the least of which is that no one was watching the store.....
You can add the airlines and utilities to that list.
Exactly. I certainly think the regulation of these entities or at least some friggen basic RULES need to be implemented but the bailout non-sense has to cease. In fact, I don't even believe the general public who bought into this market should be bailed out. The fact of the matter is many of these loans were at 100% which means the owners didn't really own anything so what is it they are actually losing here? Equity? What equity? If there was any equity they would have this problem. Why do I as a tax payer have to pay for someone else buying a home they clearly could not afford? This, of course, extends to the bank who funded these loans. While we are at it the mortgage loan fraud crooks should be put in jail....
A flushing of the system is needed to get things back on track at the minimum.
jom
So this regulation you're talking about, would that be government intervention? Isn't that what everyone here is so worried about? Some of us have been saying that since the Reagan administration deregulated the utilities and it's spiraled from there. Not all government is bad. And if you think, for one minute, that the government bailout alone is going to cost you more taxes, think again. You're gonna pay through the nose (or your children will) for the mess this economy is in. We made the mess, why leave it to our children?
Your belief that everyone losing their home right now just made a bad business decision is flawed. This economy, helped along by Mr. Bush, has contributed to this mess. The loss of jobs, the price of health care, gasoline, food. All it takes is one major illness and you could be wiped out. Do you pay ANY attention to what's going on in this country? This is a major flaw of Americans, they don't see past their own situation or bank account.
Denmark, Sweden, and many other European countries handle health care and the elderly on retirement quite nicely. I know your next argument is going to be that their taxes are alot higher. But if I took what my husband and I spend and have spent in medical PREMIUMS (not health care, just coverage, just in case) and assumed that I'd have to pay that in taxes, I'd be in about the same boat, but with much better coverage if we followed the European models. Just saying.
Your belief that everyone losing their home right now just made a bad business decision is flawed. This economy, helped along by Mr. Bush, has contributed to this mess. The loss of jobs, the price of health care, gasoline, food. All it takes is one major illness and you could be wiped out. Do you pay ANY attention to what's going on in this country? This is a major flaw of Americans, they don't see past their own situation or bank account.
Denmark, Sweden, and many other European countries handle health care and the elderly on retirement quite nicely. I know your next argument is going to be that their taxes are alot higher. But if I took what my husband and I spend and have spent in medical PREMIUMS (not health care, just coverage, just in case) and assumed that I'd have to pay that in taxes, I'd be in about the same boat, but with much better coverage if we followed the European models. Just saying.
everyone who is losing their home right now DID make a bad business decision. and those of us who made GOOD decisions are now going to pay for those who didn't. and we are all going to pay with the dollar dropping even more in value because the government now has to lend to spend even more. so expect prices overall to keep going up, because bernanke doesn't have the sack to raise interest rates, while the rest of the world IS.
This is going to screw us LONGER and HARDER by delaying the inevitable. If we had just taken our lumps fully after 2001, then we'd most likely already be past it and on the upswing again. But no, had to drop the rate to 1% and hold it there so everyone and their mother could start buying houses with no down, flooding the economy with liquidity.
flood the market with liquidity and keeping rates down? going to drive up prices of everything, including our precious health care.
So in the end, people will learn all over again, just another case of history repeating itself, that they will need to save, just like our parents/grandparents/great grandparents did after the great depression. Nothing changes behavior faster than pain.
The House bill, the 2005 Federal Housing Finance Reform Act, would have created a stronger regulator with new powers to increase capital at Fannie and Freddie, to limit their portfolios and to deal with the possibility of receivership.
Mr Oxley reached out to Barney Frank, then the ranking Democrat on the committee and now its chairman, to secure support on the other side of the aisle. But after winning bipartisan support in the House, where the bill passed by 331 to 90 votes, the legislation lacked a champion in the Senate and faced hostility from the Bush administration.
Adamant that the only solution to the problems posed by Fannie and Freddie was their privatisation, the White House attacked the bill. Mr Greenspan also weighed in, saying that the House legislation was worse than no bill at all.
“We missed a golden opportunity that would have avoided a lot of the problems we’re facing now, if we hadn’t had such a firm ideological position at the White House and the Treasury and the Fed,” Mr Oxley says.
everyone who is losing their home right now DID make a bad business decision. and those of us who made GOOD decisions are now going to pay for those who didn't. and we are all going to pay with the dollar dropping even more in value because the government now has to lend to spend even more. so expect prices overall to keep going up, because bernanke doesn't have the sack to raise interest rates, while the rest of the world IS.
This is going to screw us LONGER and HARDER by delaying the inevitable. If we had just taken our lumps fully after 2001, then we'd most likely already be past it and on the upswing again. But no, had to drop the rate to 1% and hold it there so everyone and their mother could start buying houses with no down, flooding the economy with liquidity.
flood the market with liquidity and keeping rates down? going to drive up prices of everything, including our precious health care.
So in the end, people will learn all over again, just another case of history repeating itself, that they will need to save, just like our parents/grandparents/great grandparents did after the great depression. Nothing changes behavior faster than pain.
Sorry, gotta disagree. Those people were affording their homes before an illness, losing a job, etc. All it takes is one catastrophe. I don't know many people who when buying their first home, have been able to live the high life. You struggle a bit first. There are alot of people who were in that boat. You can't just lump everyone in the same category.
Hopefully you'll be lucky enough not to test that theory.
Sorry, gotta disagree. Those people were affording their homes before an illness, losing a job, etc. All it takes is one catastrophe. I don't know many people who when buying their first home, have been able to live the high life. You struggle a bit first. There are alot of people who were in that boat. You can't just lump everyone in the same category.
Hopefully you'll be lucky enough not to test that theory.
In this case, you can. This is a mess because of ARMs, not fixed loans.
People did 1 of 2 things here:
1. Bought a loan they didn't understand, or
2. Understood it and bought it anyway.
Either way, not hte best business decision.
I will, however, say that lying was rampant among agents of a lot of companies. If this is the case I don't blame the person. They got screwed, but after having signed a contract saying they understood the loan, they don't have much of a case to come back and say that they didn't. I do feel for those people more than the ones who just didn't do the due dilligence, though it sucks for them too. Never good to lose your house.
Sorry, gotta disagree. Those people were affording their homes before an illness, losing a job, etc. All it takes is one catastrophe. I don't know many people who when buying their first home, have been able to live the high life. You struggle a bit first. There are alot of people who were in that boat. You can't just lump everyone in the same category.
Hopefully you'll be lucky enough not to test that theory.
how many of these people were sub prime that put no money down? how many had interest only payments that they could barely afford?
yeah, first thing that I learned from financial planning? have 6 months of cash on hand to stave off any problems. Don't have health insurance? DON'T BUY A HOUSE, get health insurance first! a few grand a year too expensive to get catastrophic personal insurance for you and your family? DON'T BUY A HOUSE. YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT. Lost a job? again, if you didn't save to buffer yourself for some ups and downs, DON'T BUY A HOUSE.
I have been through your "theory" and I've certainly learned from it. But IT WAS MY RESPONSIBILITY, not everyone else's, to do what I needed to do. I didn't go to my congressperson/senator crying about how I might have lost my home, blah blah blah. It was my responsibility to sign on the bottom line and my responsibility to pay. It is the risk you take taking on such a big loan/responsibility.
you don't understand that these bailouts are going to SCREW us even LONGER. you want to save our kids from our problems? let's go through the pain NOW so they don't get saddled with this later! where is the money for these bailouts going to come from?
Fannie and Freddie are Nationalized!!! 
Mr. Irreverent
