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About This Page: This is a discussion on Politics within the LetsGoKings.com forums, at Los Angeles Kings Hockey Fan Forum. Clinton has (potentially) driven a stake through her own nasty little political heart by finally saying explicitly what she and her surrogates have only been saying in coded language for
Clinton has (potentially) driven a stake through her own nasty little political heart by finally saying explicitly what she and her surrogates have only been saying in coded language for the last several weeks.
She was probably in a strong position to negotiate for a face-saving or even power- enhancing exit from the primary race. Obama still has to be nice to her anyway, however, I think this makes it more difficult for Obama to offer her the VP spot and less likely that she can demand an offer of it or any of the other payoffs she is likely to want.
Obama doesn't want to make such an offer, and he shouldn't for all kinds of good political and moral reasons, but Clinton could easily have forced him to do so as the price of pulling out of the race and stopping the damage she has been doing. Before this, if offered the VP spot she would likely have turned it down in order to inflict one last humiliation on Obama and anti-Clinton voters.
But with this on the record she has given too many Democrats a clear way to dismiss and reject her by throwing this back in her face for eternity. The only way she can redeem herself may be to actually work hard for Obama to be elected instead of just sitting on the sidelines and hoping for his defeat as she had planned.
Wierdly, what may come of this is that she may now HAVE to ask for the VP spot and HAVE to accept it, even if she doesn't want it, because that may be her only way of tying herself to Obama and campaigning for him in a way that might repair the seriously damaged goods she has become because of this remark. And Obama may HAVE to make the offer and not be able to count on her saying no to it.
Clinton: Playing the race card? Posted: Friday, May 09, 2008 9:25 AM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under: 2008, Clinton
The New York Post: “Clinton played the race card yesterday as she dismissed Barack Obama as a candidate who will have a hard time winning support from ‘white Americans.’ It was the most starkly racial comment Clinton has made in the campaign, and drew quick condemnation from some Democrats.
“ ‘I have a much broader base to build a winning coalition on,’ she told USA Today in an interview published yesterday. She referred to an Associated Press story on Indiana and North Carolina exit polls ‘that found how Sen. Obama's support among working, hardworking Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me.’ She added, ‘There's a pattern emerging here.’”
Here’s what some said in response: “Muriel Offerman, a North Carolina superdelegate who has not disclosed her choice, said, ‘That should not have been said. I think it drives a wedge, a racial wedge, and that's not what the Democratic Party's about.’ Asked about Clinton's comments, Massachusetts superdelegate Debra Kozikowsi said, ‘That's distressing. I'm not even sure how to respond to that.’”
The New York Daily News: “Hillary Clinton misplays race card while Barack Obama is treated like rock star.” “[S]ome of her supporters -- including Rep. Charles Rangel (D-Manhattan) -- slammed the comments. ‘I can't believe Sen. Clinton would say anything that dumb,’ Rangel told The News as he headed to the House floor, where earlier he had embraced Obama. The bitter words came as both candidates looked ahead to West Virginia's primary Tuesday and pressed their talking points -- Clinton insisting she was in the race to win, while Obama argued he could have the nomination wrapped up when Oregon and Kentucky vote on May 20.”
Peggy Noonan also believes Clinton played the race card in her USA Today interview. "If John McCain said, ‘I got the white vote, baby!’ his candidacy would be over. And rising in highest indignation against him would be the old Democratic Party. To play the race card as Mrs. Clinton has, to highlight and encourage a sense that we are crudely divided as a nation, to make your argument a brute and cynical ‘the black guy can't win but the white girl can’ is -- well, so vulgar, so cynical, so cold, that once again a Clinton is making us turn off the television in case the children walk by.”
“‘She has unleashed the gates of hell,’ a longtime party leader told me. ‘She's saying, “He's not one of us.”’
John Edwards said on MSNBC’s Morning Joe that he disagrees with Clinton’s “white Americans” comment and that she's got to ask herself, "Where are the lines?" He added, “I think it’s fine for Hillary to keep making the case for her. But when that shifts to everything that is wrong with him, then we’re doing damage instead of being helpful.”
And did Edwards tip his hand on who he’s backing? He called Obama the "likely nominee.” And we’ll chalk this one up to his Southern accent, but he said he "voted for 'em on Tuesday.” (Sounded an awful lot like "him.")
Also… “I think Barack Obama’s doing pretty well without my help.” Edwards also said, “He is clearly the likely nominee at this point.”
Edwards said he may choose to publicly declare for one of the candidates, but he’s keeping it to himself “just for now.” He added, though, that he doesn’t think his endorsement matters except to “people like you all” [the media]. He wouldn’t answer if he and his wife, Elizabeth, voted for different people.
Here’s the New York Post’s headline to Charles Hurt’s column: “Desperate Hillbillies threaten to break up party.” “Well, now these racial politics have spilled out into the public and are splintering longtime, devoted Democrats into separate camps. It's become the ‘working-class whites’ versus the ‘eggheads and African-Americans.’
More: “With no one left to cry to, Sen. Clinton has gone nuclear and she's getting kookier by the minute. Yesterday she was toast. Today, she's looking more like scrambled eggs.”
Politico's Smith on Clinton's blunt talk about her white support: "Now, the press has talked about the race in these terms constantly, so I won't feign shock. But it's a bit strange to hear it so bluntly from the candidate's mouth, and probably not a great way to endear herself to African-American voters. And it's also noteworthy that the blunt talk on appealing to whites surfaces the day after the last round of primaries in which there's a substantial number of black voters."
__________________
"For if once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." Thomas DeQuincey, 1700's
Last edited by Leonidas; May 9th, 2008 at 11:43 AM.
Obama cannot beat McCain that's just the truth. Obama might win in the states out west, but no Redneck is voting for a african american president I'm sorry.
Whether she should be drawing attention to it or not is one thing, but she isn't lying regarding the pattern that is emerging.
It doesn't make any difference for the purpose of the general election whether she is pointing out that large numbers of poorly educated white working class men are voting for her because they are racist and at least she's not black. That's not news. She didn't let the cat out of the bag or anything. Nobody who isn't in the excuse making business would ever contend otherwise.
A majority of them haven't voted for any Democratic presidential candidate since Lyndon Johnson in 1964. 60 to 70% of them have been voting Republican since the civil rights and voting rights acts were passed in '64-65. So this isn't any new emerging pattern, it's an old pattern of voting based on racial resentment. I'm glad to see you finally admit it in a post instead of just sticking to your (and others) old "It's not about racism, there are lots of reasons for why these guys might be voting against Obama" routine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17
Still, what a shock the Clintons being all about the Clintons. I am truly surprised.
The surprising thing isn't that she's a cynical opportunist. The surprising thing is that she's so addlepated and out of touch with reality that she's become a stupid politically suicidal tin-eared cynical opportunist. That she would follow up Bill's "Jesse Jackson won South Carolina too" statement with this "hard-working white Americans" crack. It's stupid because she sounds like Strom Thurmond or Jesse Helms and now both Clinton's have earned the well-deserved contempt of much of the base of the Democratic Party.
My point is that the ironic result of this may be that she now may have to say yes to what would otherwise have been a pro forma offer of the VP nomination from Obama in order to try and save her standing in the Democratic Party. That's what is bad luck for all of us including Republicans. Do you want to risk her as VP? I think not.
Obama cannot beat McCain that's just the truth. Obama might win in the states out west, but no Redneck is voting for a african american president I'm sorry.
It may be true that white racism makes it impossible for Obama to win. OrangePuck and I, (I hope for different reasons), have each been saying something like this for months.
On the other hand, Obama might win just because the racist vote not going to the Democrats is nothing new. It doesn't go for Democratic white male candidates either. Obama doesn't have to convince rednecks to vote for him in order to win, he has to convince people who are not rednecks to vote for him. He needs to add numbers in the current democratic voting blocks. 'Reagan Democrats' are a fiction. Those folks have just been good old 'Redneck Republicans' now for two generations.
Rednecks are not a 'swing vote' and they won't be part of Obama's math.
I doubt she would take the VP role. she'd rather Obama or McCain f-up and then go for the big job again in 2012. or maybe she will take the VP role and Obama will find a way to sleep with the fishes...
It doesn't make any difference for the purpose of the general election whether she is pointing out that large numbers of poorly educated white working class men are voting for her because they are racist and at least she's not black. That's not news. She didn't let the cat out of the bag or anything. Nobody who isn't in the excuse making business would ever contend otherwise.
A majority of them haven't voted for any Democratic presidential candidate since Lyndon Johnson in 1964. 60 to 70% of them have been voting Republican since the civil rights and voting rights acts were passed in '64-65. So this isn't any new emerging pattern, it's an old pattern of voting based on racial resentment. I'm glad to see you finally admit it in a post instead of just sticking to your (and others) old "It's not about racism, there are lots of reasons for why these guys might be voting against Obama" routine.
The surprising thing isn't that she's a cynical opportunist. The surprising thing is that she's so addlepated and out of touch with reality that she's become a stupid politically suicidal tin-eared cynical opportunist. That she would follow up Bill's "Jesse Jackson won South Carolina too" statement with this "hard-working white Americans" crack. It's stupid because she sounds like Strom Thurmond or Jesse Helms and now both Clinton's have earned the well-deserved contempt of much of the base of the Democratic Party.
My point is that the ironic result of this may be that she now may have to say yes to what would otherwise have been a pro forma offer of the VP nomination from Obama in order to try and save her standing in the Democratic Party. That's what is bad luck for all of us including Republicans. Do you want to risk her as VP? I think not.
She'll be back as the Democratic front runner in 2012 if Obama loses in 2008.
__________________ Hockey's original bad boy. The "Cowboy" Howie Young
She'll be back as the Democratic front runner in 2012 if Obama loses in 2008.
I agree. That's what she wants. But if she runs for VP and Obama loses she'll have a much better case to make for herself than if he loses while she sits on the sidelines looking like she wanted him to. She has to repair herself after what she's done and working publically against her own well known ambitions may be all she can do to make that happen. Remember, 53% of the public has a negative view of her. You don't get a number like that unless a boatload of Democrats hate your guts.
Clinton Lays The Race Card On The Table And We All May Lose Big 
FlyBoeingJets
