The Veteran Cop-Out

[Carla Muller]

Some can argue or cringe, as Hextall said he did, with Lombardi's candor - especially with the presentation Lombardi made at the Spring Breakfast with the GM. Hextall did have a point. How many people used the words - bridge, filler and builder – in a hockey context prior to Lombardi’s tenure? Anyone who has their hands raised must be a Sharks' fan unless Lombardi developed a new formula for building a team after his Sharks reign.

As a fan, I sit patiently waiting for the future to be the present. What had never occurred to me prior to this off-season is the very real effect this must have on the players who now know they are merely place holders for any player who is not them…egad! Okay, that is a bit of an over-statement but not by much. Here is what Giuliano said after he signed his new deal to go to Europe:

"They called me up (around mid-season) and I stayed up to the end of the year," the 29-year-old Giuliano said. "If it was a different type of organization I would have signed, but the way they're going, they're giving the younger guys a shot."

Giuliano on the Kings

Thanks to LGKer Sidney 77 who translated the linked article, we know that Modry moved on to Europe with similar sentiments as Giuliano :

"Modry said: "I’m looking forward to have chance to win something, playing for a good team. I do not want to play for a team only to fill some hole, but I want to be part of the team where I’ll have a chance to prove myself."

Modry on Being a Filler Player

To be fair, Giuliano's statement is less about him personally. I used his quote as an example of what prospective UFAs probably thought this summer and what former Kings may be using as their excuse about their Kings' tenure under the Lombardi regime. Forget these players’ sentiments, consider some of Hextall’s sentiments at this summer’s Town Hall Meetings. He talked about the toll of losing on the veterans and how no veteran wants to come here. That is such an ironic take when I compare it to why some of the kids were sent back to Manchester last year. Who else remembers how Bernier, Murray and others were sent back because they did not want to have the Kings’ youth stunted by the losing environment that defined last season’s incarnation of the team.

Which is it? Is losing too hard on the veterans or is it that losing impedes younger players from developing? If it is both, then essentially who exactly would not be ruined by the Kings’ rebuilding movement… I am thinking mid-20’s players at best. Considering Cammalleri’s parting shots, an argument can be made losing just plain takes a toll. There is a statement that can be filed in the Department of the Obvious.

I take issue with all of these justifications. Making a career – or not – is not about finding a reason why it is everyone else’s fault other than the players themselves for their role on a team. There are two things we can control in life: What we do and how we respond to what everyone else does. I cannot speak for Crawford, Lombardi or Hextall obviously. I can say with complete conviction that if any of these veteran players let their play dictate their role on the Kings then what they make and where they play next year would be entirely different. Rather than ask anyone to take my word for it, there are some concrete examples.

I remember when Babcock became the Red Wings coach, I read that he told Chelios what his role would be more 5th or 6th D then specialty teams play and major minutes. Chelios responded that this may be Babcock’s take but he had no intention of accepting that place on the team. He only went onto let his game speak for him. That only resulted in Chelios playing closer to his definition of where he belonged than Babcock’s earlier prognostication.

Bringing this closer to home, look at Kopitar. No one – other than Kopitar – thought he would stay with the big club two years ago. He was absolutely slotted for Manchester. He just showed up and let his play speak for itself. There was no talk two years ago about his development being stunted by the losing environment that came to define the last two years’ versions of Kings. Why? He just showed up. Simple as that.

Perhaps the legal system is where the justification rationalization excuse took hold. There was the Twinkie defense (the sugar from a Hostess treat made me do it) and the mistrial in the first Menendez trial where abuse became argued as a defense to murder. All of a sudden if a person had a reason their life did not turn out the way they planned somehow that same person lost all culpability for their lot in life. I call this way of navigating the universe a complete and total cop-out.

To a large extent, where a person’s life goes has a lot to do with the choices and actions a person make and takes. It is emotionally satisfying to have anyone other than ourselves to blame. It is also a crock. Once upon a time I read an article, where they took a poll. It turned out that the difference between those who were happy and those who were not had nothing to do with what happened in each persons’ life. It had everything to do with how each person responded. Happy and unhappy people all had their fare share of trauma and reality. The people with a better disposition chose not to let their lives be defined by those same traumas and bouts of reality.

Any future veteran Kings’ player really does hold their future in their own hands all things being equal other than G-d given talent. Do the work, leave their best game on the ice, and Murray would be a fool not to play them. Preissing, Handzus, Calder or Gauthier predictably will get as much ice time as their play merits – barring injury or being outplayed by anyone other than themselves. It is time for a gut check for these veterans. Modry, Giuliano and Nagy might not have appreciated the play they got but they had everything to do with that. This season the same rules apply.

Carla Muller

Carla.hockeygal@att.net

[USCKingsFan31]

Don't really see how Giuliano fits in with your opinion here. I agree with you that veterans can control their own destiny to some degree... playing their hearts out, as you say, should earn them ice time. But you also mention God-given talent, which brings me to the point that saying "Modry, Giuliano and Nagy might not have appreciated the play they got but they had everything to do with that. This season the same rules apply" just doesn't make any sense.

No one ever questioned Guiliano's work ethic, the guy busts his ass as hard as he can. But he just straight up isn't talented enough to crack a healthy NHL lineup. With only 4 center spots and 8 winger spots available, without talent, no amount of effort in the world can get you off of the 3rd or 4th line. Nagy, sure, the guy has shown flashes of PPG talent and may have been able to earn the minutes. But there was nothing Guiliano could have physically done to play a bigger role with this team. He realized that, and he is moving on. His effort didn't in any way shape or form "have everything to do with that".

[davidc1968]

Thank you again Carla. I look forward to your posts every week.

[Carla Muller]

Originally Posted by USCKingsFan31

Don't really see how Giuliano fits in with your opinion here. . . . No one ever questioned Guiliano's work ethic, the guy busts his ass as hard as he can. But he just straight up isn't talented enough to crack a healthy NHL lineup. With only 4 center spots and 8 winger spots available, without talent, no amount of effort in the world can get you off of the 3rd or 4th line.

That is a very fair statement. What Giuliano was quoted as saying after his KHL deal could and probably has been said by other former Kings or by UFAs who chose to sign anywhere but here. (I appreciated your feedback. I made some edits to reflect it.)

I will say though, that while you and I saw that Giuliano worked his butt, I read comments on LGK by others that really didn't appreciate why he stayed up with the Kings last season. He did earn his time with the team last year IMO.

[Dr. Naysay]

Matt and I addressed this issue on an episode of the podcast. When the issue of "team toughness" was raised I pointed out that if you were a veteran it would be ridiculous to risk your limited health and playing time left in your career for a team full of youngsters that had clearly labeled you a gap filler while the young players would be equally unlikely to risk their necks for veterans that could be gone as soon as the next trade deadline or off season.

In general I lay the blame for the whole situation at the feet of ownership and front office management. The last two seasons have seen the Kings finally adopt a full blown "go with youth and the draft" movement like so many other franchises have done.... only in a completely backwards ****ed up way that only the Kings and a few other teams seem to manage to screw up.

I'll be thrilled if this current direction pans out for the Kings... but from my vantage point Lombardi seems to be too smart for his own good.

Clever enough to get into trouble... but not clever enough to get himself out. I hope he proves all us "Naysayers" wrong.

[mitchrock]

Good point. Can understand a player not wanting to be a filler player. However, whether as a filler or veteran, rookie or a star, it's your game play and attitude that will show what kind of player you truly are.

[KingsFan19]

Sounds about right...

[Carla Muller]

Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay

When the issue of "team toughness" was raised I pointed out that if you were a veteran it would be ridiculous to risk your limited health and playing time left in your career for a team full of youngsters that had clearly labeled you a gap filler while the young players would be equally unlikely to risk their necks for veterans that could be gone as soon as the next trade deadline or off season.

I agree with this to a point. If you are a veteran grinder type player, then I am thinking any NHL opportunity is a good thing. Players who have the luxury of choosing their team are few and far between for most. When this team takes off, then the Gary Roberts-type player would want to come here and ride the young cores' coat tails. Of course, this won't be seen until or unless the Kings are real contenders.

Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay

I'll be thrilled if this current direction pans out for the Kings... but from my vantage point Lombardi seems to be too smart for his own good.

I refuse to go to the process being changed by Lombardi and make judgments accordingly until or unless he does change the team's course. There is no evidence of that to date.

[Carla Muller]

Originally Posted by sniprock

However, whether as a filler or veteran, rookie or a star, it's your game play and attitude that will show what kind of player you truly are.

I think that is why Armstrong has been a good fit here. While many can't stand him, I love what he brings. I don't see him trying to do things outside of his skill set. I think his critics loathe him for what he isn't not what he is. If and when the Kings have a legitimate #2 center, no way does Armstrong remain on the 2nd line or on the PP. He just does his job, doesn't complain and works hard. He was also the only veteran on the team last year that was included in the pre-game video of players around Los Angeles. That just never felt like a coincidence.

[Dr. Naysay]

Originally Posted by Carla Muller

I agree with this to a point. If you are a veteran grinder type player, then I am thinking any NHL opportunity is a good thing. Players who have the luxury of choosing their team are few and far between for most. When this team takes off, then the Gary Roberts-type player would want to come here and ride the young cores' coat tails. Of course, this won't be seen until or unless the Kings are real contenders.

That may be... but if you're Scott Thornton and you're signing a retirement contract or if you're Giuliano and you're borderline NHL player AT BEST then you have to consider other things other than just "getting NHL ice time". Risking injury to "stick up" for a team that views you as a part time commodity doesn't make sense in the long term.

Originally Posted by Carla Muller

I refuse to go to the process being changed by Lombardi and make judgments accordingly until or unless he does change the team's course. There is no evidence of that to date.

I'll give Lombardi a pass on season one. AEG however gets no such pass. As for this past off season... say what you will about spots needing to be filled... Lombardi signed a complete 2nd/3rd line worth of forwards and two veteran defencemen to add to Modry, Blake and Visnovsky.

That's not going with youth. That's hedging your bets. Lombardi can say he didn't expect any of those players to accomplish a great deal all he wants... the fact remains that they took up roster spots and played vital minutes on a team that was supposedly "rebuilding" with youth. So that's two seasons worth of NHL experience for younger players or veterans that wouldn't have been considered "builders" or "bridges", or whatever spreadsheet term he wants to use, that have been effectively flushed down the tubes. On top of that there's any potential good will lost by having Blake and Crawford and Cloutier around for their respective dilemmas.

Lombardi, perhaps (as he claims) at the behest of AEG, has NOT followed through with his own plan and now, in year three, we may finally see it begin....

[Carla Muller]

Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay

if you're Scott Thornton and you're signing a retirement contract or if you're Giuliano and you're borderline NHL player AT BEST then you have to consider other things other than just "getting NHL ice time".

Other than the Kings, where precisely were Thornton or Giuliano going to play at the NHL level or get a contract ... especially the latter. There are multiple players who ONLY have NHL deals for sticking up for others - enforcer types and third/fourth line energy guys. If they don't stick up for their teammates, then they aren't in the NHL.

Originally Posted by Dr. Naysay

Lombardi can say he didn't expect any of those players to accomplish a great deal all he wants... the fact remains that they took up roster spots and played vital minutes on a team that was supposedly "rebuilding" with youth. So that's two seasons worth of NHL experience for younger players or veterans that wouldn't have been considered "builders" or "bridges", or whatever ....

Maybe I am missing something. My take on Lombardi's organizational plan means by definition he signed gap players to allow the younger players to develop at their own pace. Year three had to be the first year where some might be ready. With Purcell, Boyle and Moulson expected to make the team leads me to think that DL is executing his plan as promised.

[Dr. Naysay]

Originally Posted by Carla Muller

Other than the Kings, where precisely were Thornton or Giuliano going to play at the NHL level or get a contract ... especially the latter. There are multiple players who ONLY have NHL deals for sticking up for others - enforcer types and third/fourth line energy guys. If they don't stick up for their teammates, then they aren't in the NHL. .

Heh. That's my point. Thornton wasn't going to play anywhere else so he had the rest of his life and his health to consider. Giuliano is way too small to "stick up" for anybody. His role in the NHL is going to be limited to exactly what he did with the Kings. Skate hard and do what he's told. But if you're Brown or Kopitar why are you going to risk hurting yourself to fight or hit for a player that could be gone tomorrow? If you're Scott Thornton and retirement is looming why would you risk discomfort for the rest of your life?

Originally Posted by Carla Muller

Maybe I am missing something. My take on Lombardi's organizational plan means by definition he signed gap players to allow the younger players to develop at their own pace. Year three had to be the first year where some might be ready. With Purcell, Boyle and Moulson expected to make the team leads me to think that DL is executing his plan as promised.

Well that all assumes that players like O'Sullivan and Johnson blossom into legitimate NHL talent. As much as I like both players Belanger, Gleason, Demitra and others that have been jettisoned by Lombardi could have filled those roles just as well while giving Kings fans some kind of continuity.

Now... maybe the Kings don't do as poorly and their draft picks aren't as good... but I don't think Lombardi truly expected to finish where they did... and I don't buy the "in the locker room" argument for every single player that was let go. In fact I don't believe it for any of them until I see some kind of concrete evidence beyond just the speculation of a hand full of fans on the internet.