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About This Page: This is a discussion on News within the LetsGoKings.com forums, at Los Angeles Kings Hockey Fan Forum.
The first time I heard the concept that a team had to lose to learn how to win came from Gretzky. The Oilers lost to the Islanders in the Stanley

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Old April 20th, 2008, 09:44 PM   #1
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Default Manchester on the Brink of Elimination: Do You Have to Learn How to Lose to Win?

The first time I heard the concept that a team had to lose to learn how to win came from Gretzky. The Oilers lost to the Islanders in the Stanley Cup Finals in 1983. The story goes something like he walked past the Islander dressing room and saw the price the Islanders paid to win. The winning locker room – in all their earned glory – was also the equivalent of a hockey MASH unit. As the story goes, that was Gretzky’s V-8 Moment of what it took to win it all.

The Great One learned well since the Oilers went on to create their own Edmonton dynasty. There are other examples in NHL history. The Red Wings got swept by the Devils in the shortened lock-out 1995 win. Detroit won it all shortly thereafter in 1997 and 1998. The Hurricanes lost to the same successful Wings in the 2002 Final and became Cup worthy in 2006. The Ducks lost in the Finals to the Devils in 2003 and won it all last year. (Drat)

This begs the question is losing really required before winning comes?

I am sure of one thing. The Kings seem to be most defined by their tradition of losing and little else, for now. With only one play-off series win since the 1993 Cup run, it gives the Kings’ detractors a whole lot of ammunition. Credit one to the Department of the Obvious.

It turns out that losing has been a constant with both the AHL and NHL level of the Kings’ organization this year. This season Manchester has been younger than ever with as many personnel changes as the big club. With the youth movement in full force on the farm too, their ability to reach the play-offs is no small accomplishment. The Monarchs are learning first hand that getting in is only Step One. (A lesson Kings’ fans would kill to watch in person.)

Manchester faces elimination Monday night down three games to none against the Providence Bruins. The big Bruins’ run to bring their series against Montreal to a seventh game is also advantage Monarchs since the Bruins’ youth stays with their big club.

In game one, Bernier kept the Monarchs in the game until the team tied the game in the third but lost the game when Providence won the battle in over-time. (A similar scenario played out in game three’s loss.) Here is what a Kings/Manchester fan and contributor on letsgokings.com, ‘Pretty Vivid’, had to say who got to watch the first game in person:
“Jonathan Bernier:

His scouting reports always talk about him being a "big game" goalie, and he really demonstrated it, especially by robbing Providence's big scorer Pascal Pelletier's point blank wrist shot in overtime. Bernier had 34 saves.

Matt Ryan:

He's the type of player that may be let walk, but he does a lot of little things. As far as a one on one player defensively, he just doesn't get beat. Good face off guy, very fast skater, and is another purely defensive Manchester forward. I've always liked this guy as far as a 3rd or 4th line call up, or a PK replacement.

Teddy Purcell:

His offensive production in Manchester really caught my attention and I started watching him a little closer when he got called up, then sent back down. He's going to need to stop shying away from contact if he really wants to start making a difference in big games.

David Meckler:

I like this guy. I followed him a little when he was with the London Knights in the OHL, and established himself as a fast, goal scoring winger that despite his size goes into the corners and battles with reckless abandon.”
Manchester Monarchs’ Player Assessments

The third game loss came off of a short-handed goal that Providence player, Hoggan, shot from behind the net no less. On the positive side, the Monarchs still believe in themselves if Purcells’ comments are reflective of the room.
"We were excited on the bench," said Manchester rookie Teddy Purcell, who assisted on both of his team's goals. "We were pretty confident, but obviously they're a great penalty killing team and we knew we had to be careful. At the same time, we had four people back and it went in from behind the net. Fluky goal.

. . . It's tough," Purcell said. "But we've got to be positive. Be upset about this for 15 minutes and learn from our mistakes and look ahead to Monday night."
Monarchs Face Elimination

Manchester’s’ head coach, Mark Morris, has made the atypical choice to play his netminders in tandem. Bernier got the nod in games one & three while Quick started game 2. By all accounts, both held their own. Nonetheless, there is no replacement for experience and veteran leadership in the room. The Monarchs are short on the latter.
"They've got experience," Morris said. "When you've got veteran players on your team they know how to weather the storm and they also know the nuances of the game. There's a lot to be said for experience."
Providence’s Leadership Proving to be too much for Young Monarchs

This all begs the question I started with. Does a team really have to lose to learn how to win? Here is what the ladies’ USA Hockey captain had to say on the subject after taking gold from Canada in this year’s worlds:
"It's never fun," captain Hayley Wickenheiser said. "Sometimes you lose to learn how to win again. It hurts every time you watch them celebrate like that.”
Learning How to Win

Personally, I prefer best Jack Johnson’s response to the notion that losing has to come before winning:
"I think a lot of people try to justify losing. I don’t think you need to lose in order to win. I think losing stinks. Flat out, period. There’s no need for it. There’s nothing wrong with winning all the time. I don’t believe that you have to learn from losing before you can win. I think you need to have the mentality that winning is everything. "
- JMFJ
I don’t see losing as something that needs to be justified; rather, I believe that this is more about learning to walk before you can run and running before you fly….to the top. And most important, putting your best game on the ice – not stuck in your soul.

Carla Muller

Carla.hockeygal@att.net
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Old April 21st, 2008, 02:21 PM   #2
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I was going to use that JMFJ quote before I saw I did.

You don't need to lose to win. If you give it your all and keep winning, how is losing going to help? Lessons can be learned from losing, but if you've already got those lessons engraned in you, and you win because of it, there's no need to lose. Such sayings are a cop-out. It's like telling your children to fail a class because they'll learn more. Don't make no bloody sense.
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Old April 21st, 2008, 03:20 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by FishMonger View Post
I was going to use that JMFJ quote before I saw I did.

You don't need to lose to win. If you give it your all and keep winning, how is losing going to help? Lessons can be learned from losing, but if you've already got those lessons engraned in you, and you win because of it, there's no need to lose. Such sayings are a cop-out. It's like telling your children to fail a class because they'll learn more. Don't make no bloody sense.
and when you ask that question again to Jack Jonson the 30-year old, 10-year NHL veteran, he'll have something a little different to say... i promise.
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Old April 21st, 2008, 03:47 PM   #4
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and when you ask that question again to Jack Jonson the 30-year old, 10-year NHL veteran, he'll have something a little different to say... i promise.
Because you can't win without failing?
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Old April 21st, 2008, 11:25 PM   #5
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I don't think you need to lose in order to win. But the fact is that everybody loses. Nobody can win all the time every season. So the key is taking those losing experiences and using them to learn how to win.
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Old April 25th, 2008, 02:21 PM   #6
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Because you can't win without failing?
No, because the kings and Jack Johnson alike, are a bunch of heartless wimps
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