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About This Page: This is a discussion on News within the LetsGoKings.com forums, at Los Angeles Kings Hockey Fan Forum. Carla,
I am sorry to say it but I am convinced that you are dead wrong - again - on this issue.
Lombardi is trying to thread a needle here
Carla,
I am sorry to say it but I am convinced that you are dead wrong - again - on this issue.
Lombardi is trying to thread a needle here and it is risky. DL wants to have his cake and eat it too.
On the one hand DL says that O'Sullivan is a young player who has one good season of scoring on a bad team. He says that he needs to prove himself.
At the same time DL is insisting on a long term contract. If a player hasn't proved himself, would it not seem logical to sign a short term contract and do the requisite "proving" before agreeing to a long term deal?
DL is pushing for a bargain basement contract for a player with no incentive to sign one. Though they were drafted the same year, this is not like the Dustin Brown situation. Brown had a baby on the way and had played in L.A. since he was 18. DB had a reason to sacrifice some money - security. POS has 1.5 seasons in L.A., is not a family man as of the moment (to my knowledge) and was drafted by a different organization. Whereas DB improved gradually over time, POS has been a fast riser in his time year, absent his first time up in the bigs. These are different situations.
Rather than allowing POS an opportunity to sign a fair, short term contract and prove last year was no fluke he wants to save money under the pretense that it is to help sign other players within the organization.
I understand that DL has a plan to build a contender but sometimes you need to adjust your plan to realities on the ground. DL shouldn't force POS to take a long term deal for $2-3 million if he is going to score like a $4-5 million player.
O'Sullivan had a great season and DL openly talked about POS being a part of the "core". If he means it then POS needs to get paid like a "core" player. If DL does not think that way then he needs to sign POS to a one or two year deal and avoid this distraction. The team has a new coach and POS is out of town on the first day of training camp. Not good!
__________________ "I told them that I'm a punishing defenseman, a player that forwards don't like to play against.''
Colten Teubert, when asked by Kings amateur scouts about his style at the NHL Combine...
. Though they were drafted the same year, this is not like the Dustin Brown situation. Brown had a baby on the way and had played in L.A. since he was 18. DB had a reason to sacrifice some money - security. POS has 1.5 seasons in L.A., is not a family man as of the moment (to my knowledge) and was drafted by a different organization. Whereas DB improved gradually over time, POS has been a fast riser in his time year, absent his first time up in the bigs. These are different situations.
I agree that these are different situations but not for the reasons you mentioned. When Brown got his extension, he didn't become the goal scoring maniac until AFTER he signed that deal. Before he took off, I mentally had him pegged as being a physical winger only. I was wrong and am thrilled I was so wrong about him. Those issues aside, DB was in the middle of his THIRD pro season.
O'Sullivan has ONE NHL season under his belt. He could go onto having a great career; just as possible he could be a lot of potential that never gets realized. O'Sullivan didn't really take off last season IMO until he got on Kopitar's line. Giving full marks, once he did, he proved why Crawford kept him there.
If a player wants the deals I have seen people mentioning, he has to prove he can perform that way consistently and be that effective on a winning team. The fault on Lombardi's side is that they are perhaps so hell bent on a longer deal, that requires O'Sullivan's agent to fight for what he will be worth if he becomes consistent and realizes his potential. That is a whole lot of gambling on both sides.
The notion that O'Sullivan is worth $4 million after 1 season only is absolutely laughable. Him not being here in camp is HUGE and could effect his career. Why I do and will continue to take issue with O'Sullivan is because he should be in the state, he should have a face to face with DL, Solomon the whole crew and his own people. They should lock the door and not come out until a deal is done. The problem as I see it is that this should have been done forever ago.
If this were me, I am HUGE on taking control over my life on the things that are controllable by me. I am not saying O'Sullivan should drop kick his agent. I am saying he should show up, have the meeting and then if this goes to hell, he can know 100% that he did everything under his control that he could do. With that knowledge, he then would ideally have no remorse on whatever happens next. That is my opinion and I would stand by it to his face if I am ever presented such an opportunity.
Players who develop a reputation for not getting signed and asking for $$ before they earn it get their dollars if their play backs it up. I do get that. There are some things in life that money cannot buy. I know, duh... When a player takes a hometown discount, in exchange he gets security and the family feeling that comes from having that tatoo on a player's backside. When an organization pays for potential before anyone knows whether that potential will become reality, the team takes a gamble they are right.
In other words, when making a deal, if everyone thinks they should have done better, that is generally the best and most fair deal. It takes action and ownership when everyone wants to make it happen. Now, all I see if posturing. DL should let O'Sullivan sign a shorter deal and let him earn the bucks he wants. I have a hard time believing this or some other organization won't give it to him once he backs it up.
This is now a chicken and egg thing between length of term and amount of coin. As I see it, either way, O'Sullivan has more to lose than the Kings.
DL should let O'Sullivan sign a shorter deal and let him earn the bucks he wants. I have a hard time believing this or some other organization won't give it to him once he backs it up.
This is now a chicken and egg thing between length of term and amount of coin. As I see it, either way, O'Sullivan has more to lose than the Kings.
At this point, both look bad to me. I hold O'Sullivan more accountable because I really believe he has more to lose. A guy with one whopping year in the league whose game didn't take off until he was with Brown and Kopitar should really pick his battles and $$ demands more wisely.
Johnson has more leverage than O'Sullivan b/c the organization is so thin on D who are NHL ready. The organization's depth at forward is deeper so O'Sullivan is playing a more dangerous game of chicken IMO. DL doesn't need to man up, he has reserves. What does Sully have as he sits in any other place than Los Angeles?
An agent is just an employee of the player. The agent needs to tailor his efforts to what is in the players best interests. The agent must present what options are available to the player, the player must then decide what is acceptable to him. If Sully has delegated this decision to his agent, then he is a fool. IMO Sully has to take charge of his career and not rely upon someone else to make his decisions for him. The player needs to man-up and take control of his own destiny. The Player IS the boss, not the Agent.
IF Sully has the tattoo on his butt and wants to be a core pl;ayer, Fine! If not, that is fine too. I am sure one of our other hungry young prospects wiould give excess body parts to take his spot.
I am tired of waiting for him to decide. The train is leaving the station, IF he wants to be a part of the team, he needs to get on the train and ride! If not, he needs to catch the next fast freight out of town!
__________________
The Kings will finish 19th to 23rd in the league for the 2008-09 season. Yeah, I hit the Koolaid, so what? You say it...like it's a BAD thing.
I don't use as many words to go into detail, as many do. My feelings are still the same. Either Sully wants to be part of the Kings future or he doesn't. It's up to him and not some greedy agent. If Sully makes no attempt to meet with Dl and work out a deal, the Kings will just move on without him and at this point, I think we're all sick of hearing this thing drag on so long. Soooo, take a hike Sully.
I'm with Carla on this one too. This is where Sully, by his actions, will prove how much he really, REALLY wants to be part of this team. And if this drags on for more than a couple of more days, he won't be getting much sympathy from the fans. With the economy in bad shape, high gas prices, Wall St., etc., it's hard to feel sympathy for someone arguing over millions of dollars. When he does finally return, will he be greeted by BOOS at TSC? How will this delay go over with his teammates? I don't see much good coming of this if this drags on much longer.
At the same time DL is insisting on a long term contract. If a player hasn't proved himself, would it not seem logical to sign a short term contract and do the requisite \\"proving\\" before agreeing to a long term deal?
With all due respect, you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the development of players once they are in the system. The Kings lost valuable assets in the acquisition of PO'S, you certainly don't expect them to be held hostage after they spent, time money and resources to develop PO'S, do you?
On a completely different note, Carla, I agree with you completely. In fact let me throw this out:
Sometimes an intermediary is helpful in these cases, someone who might listen and talk to both sides about the true feelings of the two opposing "factions".
You know, like Kopi and Brownie, have a little chat with Sully, then maybe they go back and talk to Dean, what could it hurt?
With all due respect, you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the development of players once they are in the system. The Kings lost valuable assets in the acquisition of PO'S, you certainly don't expect them to be held hostage after they spent, time money and resources to develop PO'S, do you?
On a completely different note, Carla, I agree with you completely. In fact let me throw this out:
Sometimes an intermediary is helpful in these cases, someone who might listen and talk to both sides about the true feelings of the two opposing \"factions\".
You know, like Kopi and Brownie, have a little chat with Sully, then maybe they go back and talk to Dean, what could it hurt?
With all due respect you have a fundamental misunderstanding of assets. POS and his contract have nothing to do with who he was traded for. We are talking about a negotiation. DL has staffed it out and so has POS. This is entirely fine to do, and not a sign of either lacking "manhood".
One side wants long term for small money and one side wants long term for big money, or failing that less money for short term. DL says POS hasn't proven himself yet, but wants to lock him up long term? You only do that when you are confident the player will improve. POS, not being an idiot, realizes this and wants to be paid if he is going to sign long term.
Both sides need to just agree to a short term deal, and O'Sullivan can earn the $4 milion with his play. DL thinks he can roll the kid and get a 70-80 pt producer for $2.5 million for five years. Its just not realistic to push the issue this far. Get him signed and stop putting all the onus on O'Sullivan. It takes two to tango.
Well there are two sides to every argument and this boils down to either: cheap AEG, or misguided (perhaps even greedy) POS, or some combination therof.
I do agree that POS has to consider that being too inflexible in this situation may hurt his career (and down the line his wallet); his decisions now may ultimately harm his own objectives. I do agree with the premise that it is too early in his career and he is as yet an unproven entity in the NHL. So maybe he is posturing inappropriately.
I hope that arbitration can be avoided. The stink of that with Cammilleri didn't help the team any.
Insofar as AEG is concerned, I never know if they are being astute businessmen or just plain cheap with the Kings being an insigificant entity in their media empire. I am skeptical.
Anyhow, I can't wait until Monday to listen to the first exhibition game. I miss hockey tremendously !!!
To be fair to Phil Esposito and many of the players from his era it should probably be pointed out that many of them, including Espo, returned home to Canada to work in mills, mines, foudndries, and farms during the off season. Most players weren't paid enough in the NHL back then for them to not work during the off-season...
Folks should read Thunder and Lightening by Phil Esposito. It gives a decent insight into Espo's era NHL and some of the dealings of that time...
__________________ ***OFFICIAL SPONSOR OF MIKE CAMMALLERI APPRECIATION DAY*** COMING TO YOUR TOWN SOON
And as someone else mentioned, it's also ridiculous to say that he's unproven and may not amount to much but we NEED to lock him up for 5+ years. DL is the one insisting on a long-term contract, and he's said that if it was going to be a short-term contract the deal would already be done. Sully & his agent are fine with signing a short-term contract and letting him show what he can do, but DL is determined to lock him up. This tells you that ALL PARTIES INVOLVED (including DL) are convinced that his value is going to go up over the next few years.
Thank you, Thank you!
This aspect of the situation tends to disappear at times. I think Lombardi realizes that there is a distinct possibility that on a short-term deal the kid is going to shove Lombardi's rhetoric right up his ass through his play and have to be paid...
Carla Muller
